My L-39 Albatros project

[razorseal]

I've been wanting a good one for a while and I never ran into one... the best bet was the captainsim one which was designed for like FS7 and after some hard searching I found it to see it doesnt even work well with FS9 :(

I saw all fired up's post about his A7 project and I figured I start my own with the help of nice people like him, I might just get it done lol

anyways, after 15 hours I somewhat learned the program I will be using (cinema 4d) and hopefully I'll get somethign done lol...

this is the 1st picture and shows what I will be referencing off of.... I need to finish up scaling the 'backbone/spine' of the plane tommorow so I can base my fuselage off of it *I think*

This is more of a 'learn as you go' project for me, but what other way then training on the job? :)

anyways, here is the 1st pic

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/641/63580502gn2.jpg


Tommorow I will have all the cross sections done and I guess get to working on the Fuselage! :)

[Cougar12dk]

:) Learning by doing has been my favorite way of learning things since the Army days.

Looks like you've got the ref pics setup/aligned well :) Do you know if C4D has splines? Those are easier to use when modeling I think. Takes a little practice and maintenance, but it's faster when you get the hang on it.

I'm looking forward to seeing your progress :)

[razorseal]

ok well I realized that my cross sections are not lining up with the red line that I have goign through the side picture... every cross section is diffrent... I'm confused, is every single cross section out of proportion? if they are not aligned and I put it up in the reference everything is going to be out of whack... *confused*

http://picsorban.com/upload/references_q.jpg

[razorseal]

:) Learning by doing has been my favorite way of learning things since the Army days.

Looks like you've got the ref pics setup/aligned well :) Do you know if C4D has splines? Those are easier to use when modeling I think. Takes a little practice and maintenance, but it's faster when you get the hang on it.

I'm looking forward to seeing your progress :)

Yeah I believe so

http://picsorban.com/upload/untitled-1.jpg

I have no clue how to use them though... my tactic of doing this right now is follow exact tutorials with my own textures/shapes...

but check my above post, I dont think those cross sections are aligned well... I don't know why, everythign seems out of scale (like every cross section)

[razorseal]

to better explain what I mean about all cross sections being out of scale:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6769/31189456at2.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1997/a1zb8.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9940/45216588ff0.jpg

See what I mean? they 1 is far above it, 1 is close and the other is pretty much dead on...

wth :mad:

those blue guides btw are perfectly lined up with the fuselage's cross point to each one... I mean if each was around the same area (the offset) I would say, ok my redline is in the wrong place....

[Cougar12dk]

You can also look at it like this: the part you've put a red cross through isn't horizontal down the fuselage.... I mean, it's higher near the rear of the cockpit nad lower near the tail.

What I do when I set up those BPs is to make a box that is the size of the aircraft I'm modelling. Length, height and width.......then assign the top view BP to the top of the box, the side view.........you get the idea....Then I autosize the images, so they fit....if they don't line up perfectly, I move or scale them so they fit. If you have lousy BPs then nothing lines up and you'll have to realign the views manually.

I don't know if it's possible to save the viewports in C4D, it is in Lightwave, so that's what I do, when I've lined them up successfully.

*EDIT* Oh, and I just saw the remark about splines. The way I use them in LW is, that I draw the splines on the outlines of the A/C, adjusting them so they fit in all three views. Then (again I don't know about C4D) I patch the splines to make a poly, that flows with the curves of the splines.

In LW I tell Modeler how many knots or lengths I want the polygon to have (works best if that number is the same as the number of knots/lenghts as the spline). And voilá.....there's your polygon

[razorseal]

ahh.... I see what you mean... so the side view needs to be slanted slightly

hmm, but if I slant it a tad, now the ones up front don't line up

:(

[Cougar12dk]

No, that's not what I meant .... in LW you can put the image in the background(s) without having to make the semi-box you have in your images up there. LW simply lets you put them in the background of each of the viewports (top, front, and side) and you can then size or move them individually if you don't like the way they line up.

[razorseal]

ok, I got it all figured out, everything is coming otu perfect now!

now my next issue is something rather dumb... but I can't find the russian X letter cross section!

if you look on the side picture I put here after the "E" cross section, there is a russian letter "X" looking thing...

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3747/sidesm3.jpg

I can't find it in the blueprints! see if you can help me spot the X waldo lol...

http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw2/l39aiv.html

FREE COOKIE TO ANYONE WHO FINDS IT! :)

for ppl who are scared of downloading from russian websites due to KGB activity, they have been uploaded here and converted to JPG from TIFF :)

http://picsorban.com/upload/l-39-01.jpg
http://picsorban.com/upload/l-39-02.jpg

Should be in the 2nd one :confused:

[Cougar12dk]

Hey dude, I found a blueprint with a headon profile of the "X"-section...... do you want it in an email?

[razorseal]

send it up! razorseal@gmail.com

http://picsorban.com/upload/2_s.jpg

kinda stuck now because I can't figure out how to move the polygons aroudn to my likings to shape the fuselage :(

I tried the spline, but the problem is I don't know how to work those either because i'm so new to the scene lol. I created a side profile of the spline... so when I make a side/top/front spline profiles, and press some magic button it should draw out the shape for me?

[Cougar12dk]

Heheh :) No, that's how we all would LIKE it to work ;)

You have to connect the end points on four splines, so they are single points. Then (when you've joined four splines) you should be able to select them (in a clockwise manner) and press the "make splinepatch" button (if C4D has one).

[razorseal]

alright, well i have no clue how to do this from here on... anyone have a good C4D forum to reccomend? lol

[Cougar12dk]

Most of the ones I could find in a Google search was german, so I'm not reading that if I can help it :tongue:

[razorseal]

ugh :(

lol

all fired up where are youuuuu :D

hes probably sick of me lol

[Cougar12dk]

Hehehe :)

Hey, does C4D support 3DS files? If it does I can setup the splines in LW for ya and export them as a .3ds file

That'll have to wait 'til tomorrow though. I gotta get me some sleep :tongue:

[all-fired-up]

ugh :(

lol

all fired up where are youuuuu :D

hes probably sick of me lol

Did I see the Bat-Signal? :rofl

Okay Razor, you're going to have to make you're primitive editable, but before that you're going to have to make that cylinder with lot's less sides. At the moment it looks like you got it around 36 segments or more (I can't be too sure from the picture you have). You'll need to tone that down to around 10. Make that cylinder a 10 sided cylinder like Anders at: http://www.colacola.se/wip_p47_model.htm

It also helps to color the cylinder (fuselage) a color that is different than the wings, tail, etc... so you can see each object clearly. Also when I render, I often use Cell Rendering. Go to the Render settings and go to Effects and activate the Cel Rendering under the Post Effects drop down (upper right black arrow). Activate Edges and Color. This way when you render you'll see your outlines.

But back to the cylinder/fuselage. Start with less polygons because you'll eventally throw that structure into a HyperNURBS to smooth it later. The less points/poly's you deal with, the easier. Rule of thumb in 3D, is that it's always easier to add points and poly's than subtract.

After you got your cylinder down to a 10-segment object, then make it editable. Click on the POINTS Tool (left vertical menu) and edit points.

I wish I can give a full, blown-out tutorial, but I'm swamped at work, my wife has a baby in the cooker, due March 23rd, so I'm totally tied up. :bigeyes: But I'll try to offer help. I'm actually writing this while I'm waiting on a render. :tongue:

If you have Cinema 4D Studio check your disks, there is a very thorough modeling tutorial(s) that totally helped me out. It covers how to model, rig, animate, and render a cartoon character and it's scene. You may have to do that just to get used to the C4D interface. Believe me it's worth the look-see. It's all video based so they show you exactly how to do things visually. Also check the Goodies disk. Tons of stuff on there too.

Also follow Ander's tutorial at: http://www.colacola.se/wip_p47_model.htm
very closely. It's more methodology, than step-by-step. But even better, is that character animation tuts on the C4D disks. Those saved my life!

:thumb:

~DJ

[all-fired-up]

Hehehe :)

Hey, does C4D support 3DS files? If it does I can setup the splines in LW for ya and export them as a .3ds file

That'll have to wait 'til tomorrow though. I gotta get me some sleep :tongue:

Yep, C4D supports 3ds files, and .obj too. Not Max though.

[razorseal]

Did I see the Bat-Signal? :rofl

Okay Razor, you're going to have to make you're primitive editable, but before that you're going to have to make that cylinder with lot's less sides. At the moment it looks like you got it around 36 segments or more (I can't be too sure from the picture you have). You'll need to tone that down to around 10. Make that cylinder a 10 sided cylinder like Anders at: http://www.colacola.se/wip_p47_model.htm

It also helps to color the cylinder (fuselage) a color that is different than the wings, tail, etc... so you can see each object clearly. Also when I render, I often use Cell Rendering. Go to the Render settings and go to Effects and activate the Cel Rendering under the Post Effects drop down (upper right black arrow). Activate Edges and Color. This way when you render you'll see your outlines.

But back to the cylinder/fuselage. Start with less polygons because you'll eventally throw that structure into a HyperNURBS to smooth it later. The less points/poly's you deal with, the easier. Rule of thumb in 3D, is that it's always easier to add points and poly's than subtract.

After you got your cylinder down to a 10-segment object, then make it editable. Click on the POINTS Tool (left vertical menu) and edit points.

I wish I can give a full, blown-out tutorial, but I'm swamped at work, my wife has a baby in the cooker, due March 23rd, so I'm totally tied up. :bigeyes: But I'll try to offer help. I'm actually writing this while I'm waiting on a render. :tongue:

If you have Cinema 4D Studio check your disks, there is a very thorough modeling tutorial(s) that totally helped me out. It covers how to model, rig, animate, and render a cartoon character and it's scene. You may have to do that just to get used to the C4D interface. Believe me it's worth the look-see. It's all video based so they show you exactly how to do things visually. Also check the Goodies disk. Tons of stuff on there too.

Also follow Ander's tutorial at: http://www.colacola.se/wip_p47_model.htm
very closely. It's more methodology, than step-by-step. But even better, is that character animation tuts on the C4D disks. Those saved my life!

:thumb:

~DJ

ok, I was going to start with 10 polygons but it felt like way too less... I will go back to 10... also it already is editable... the problem is, I don't really know if I should use point, edge or polygon tool and also I don't know how to really work those 'right click' tools like knife, iron and all... I tried a smaller section of the the fuselage but no worky :(

I'll check out those tutorials now!

cougar, I will be away from computer until about tuesday so it gives you like 4-5 days to work on your splines :D

[all-fired-up]

I don't really know if I should use point, edge or polygon tool

The tool you'll use the most is the point tool. You will use the edge tool too (that's moving two points).

I still don't have the hang of using the shortcut keys, but I don't use Iron too much, very sparingly. However I use Weld (you grab two points and use the weld command to weld them together), Bevel (click on a single polygon, or an edge to bevel), knife, Create Polygon, Close Polygon, Extrude (I use this a lot), Stitch and Sew, Melt (I use this a lot too), Optimise (get's rid of old unused points), Split (used a lot), Bridge, Add Point.

You'll really need to be totally familiar with these as you won't really be able to work around on your model by merely just moving points. (see it does get tricky) :evils:

But your best bet may be to take a crash course in C4D with that character tutorial first, then tackle your plane. I'll tell you that's exactly what I did, and I became familiar real fast. You'll be like "Ahhhhh", "Oh I see...." "Woweee" hehe

:)

[razorseal]

I can't find it in the CD, where is this tut? in the tutorial I have adv render and dynamics?

[all-fired-up]

I can't find it in the CD, where is this tut? in the tutorial I have adv render and dynamics?

Hmm, you only have one CD? is it a student license? In the package that I got, there were 3 CD's, one was the installation, one was Goodies (or maybe two goodies disks), and one was a disk labeled "Tutorials"

[razorseal]

mine is just 1 dvd

is it a blue/white cd?

its not a student cd, its from my dad's company....

[all-fired-up]

mine is just 1 cd

is it a blue/white cd?

its not a student cd, its from my dad's company....

Yeah, the 9.1 were blue and white. The new ones are dark blue


However, all is not lost. Go over to Cineversity (online C4D tutorials) http://www.cineversity.com
and register there (it's free). They have great video tutorials there too.
Just do a search for tools, but try to do as much learning as possible. It will make your modeling easier :thumb:

[razorseal]

Yeah, the 9.1 were blue and white. The new ones are dark blue


However, all is not lost. Go over to Cineversity (online C4D tutorials) http://www.cineversity.com
and register there (it's free). They have great video tutorials there too.
Just do a search for tools, but try to do as much learning as possible. It will make your modeling easier :thumb:

ok i'll get to work on that :)

[razorseal]

wow, 295 for some of their tuts! OUCH lol

so what tutorials do you reccomend?

then i'll leave you alone for today I promise :D

[all-fired-up]

wow, 295 for some of their tuts! OUCH lol

so what tutorials do you reccomend?

then i'll leave you alone for today I promise :D

Yeah, the Members vids are for paying members only, but there's a lot of free ones.

If I were you start with the interface videos and get used to Cinema 4D's interface, then move onto the modeling vids.

A really wonderful tutorial (not a vid) is here: http://www.7thchamber.com/tutorials/Chev/index.htm

Bookmark this one, it's probably one of the most comprehensive modeling tutorials for C4D online.

If you can do that car really well, you should have no problems building your plane :)

IF you texture and render your car can look like this, if your good, but no promises, it takes a lot of skill.

http://www.7thchamber.com/tutorials/Chev/pics/other/base/final3.jpg

Oh also, keep in mind that you can work just on half of your model and throw it into a symmetry, therefore whatever work you do on one side of the model, you will be automatically working on the other side. This saves tons of time! But make sure your symmetry's mirror plane is XY (the default is ZY).

Well, gotta get back to workin' - got a late night of overtime :wacko:

Good Luck!

[razorseal]

Yeah, the Members vids are for paying members only, but there's a lot of free ones.

If I were you start with the interface videos and get used to Cinema 4D's interface, then move onto the modeling vids.

A really wonderful tutorial (not a vid) is here: http://www.7thchamber.com/tutorials/Chev/index.htm

Bookmark this one, it's probably one of the most comprehensive modeling tutorials for C4D online.

If you can do that car really well, you should have no problems building your plane :)

IF you texture and render your car can look like this, if your good, but no promises, it takes a lot of skill.

http://www.7thchamber.com/tutorials/Chev/pics/other/base/final3.jpg

Oh also, keep in mind that you can work just on half of your model and throw it into a symmetry, therefore whatever work you do on one side of the model, you will be automatically working on the other side. This saves tons of time! But make sure your symmetry's mirror plane is XY (the default is ZY).

Well, gotta get back to workin' - got a late night of overtime :wacko:

Good Luck!

cool! i'll check that tut... if its step by step and I can do that car, then I should probably have no problem making the plane!

I knew about the mirror thing, but didnt know how to use it (not like I know how to use anything else haha)

[razorseal]

now i have this hole problem andres has and the select all polys and optimize is not working :mad:

http://picsorban.com/upload/4_s.jpg

[razorseal]

ay ay ay.... :wacko:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4536/4ssn1.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/391/ayayayqw0.jpg

lol :(

oh well, i'm somewhat learning how to use the polygons and move them around now... i'll attempt a new fuselage I guess

[all-fired-up]

Set your Symmetry tolerence up a few notches, like to 1.01 (from .01)

It's not going to be easy doing it that way, Razor. :blank: You gotta learn how to use extrude and all those tools, before you tackle a complex object like an airplane. You'll burn yourself out real quick. I'd go back and learn from that car tutorial first. Get the basics down pat before you tackle this L39. for instance for the tail, it's best to model that later.

But don't get discouraged. :wink2:

[razorseal]

right now I started concentrating on the forward fuselage section...

but I also found out that my cross section resolution was 1024x1024 while my reference pics were 1200x1200 which made everything go out of sync :(

I'm going to be away until tuesday, so I guess when I get back I will be able to restart and do everything from scratch... now I know how to make real good reference and cross sections heh...