future of sims....

[BignChunky]

Read an article about black shark...exciting..so obviously you´ll be able to fly online with everybody else, including the other flyables in LOMAC. If so the case then are we closer to the virtual battlefield everybody seems hoping for? What do ya´ll think?

[all-fired-up]

Where's that article?? show and tell :wink2:

[SUBS17]

I think OFP and Lockon are both examples that the gap is closing on the separation between sim types. Its only a matter of time before fully modeled aircraft and FPS can exist in the same sim.

[Bosniaguy]

that's something we'll see with FO!
NOT IN THE FIRST RELEASE!

[SUBS17]

Yeah its definately something that could make alot of money, maybe even go as far as making the FPS guys have to clean their weapons:bigsmile: . Now thats detail, pilots would have to do the same with their 9mms, also have to zero them as well. If the FPS were compatible online and a xbox 360 version were created then the online population would soar. Pilot numbers would also increase as people would want to fly jets as well.

[R.A.D.]

I agree that would be great, but the only problem is that a very big community is most of the time a dumb community that completely ruins the game. Battlefield 2 is a good example of that. So if simulations reach that stage you would have kids shooting sams to their friendly aircrafts just to say "im l33t"

[Lohne]

No, no no.....

R.A.D., I totally see where your coming from. I personaly can't speak the words Counter and Strike in the same sentence without, and I kid you not, gagging. VoIP was the golden key into the wonderus gate of knowing just how stupid a human being can truly be. I'd sooner carry sticks...BLUNT sticks...into combat ALONE than have an entire army of l33t talking, flagrently immature, soclialy retarded, myopic, self centered frag-counting truculent punks at my every beck and call.

Having said that.

The single greatest concept about FO, to me anyway, is the concept that you must qualify through the training in order to be allowed a real flight position. Even after finishing basic flight and weapons school, FO goes a step further and includes a full course for whichever airframe you wish to fly, focusing down on the strengths, weaknesses and mission profiles your going to be seeing. In other words, no one that you see connecting to that hosted world server will, by the nature of the REALISM we all love so much, will not have a clue how to use their craft. They will be versed in standard flight procedures, AND allready have experince in using their machine the best way they can. With any luck, teamwork drills will be included as well. Thus, no matter how large a population we get, we wont have a SINGLE case of someone not RTFMing on us.

And trust me, I agree with you completly. The larger a community, by definition the more morons. See, we're a...strange group. I was reading a dev journal over on Star Trek online (NO I'm not a trekky...but a friend of mine is, and he'll need someone he can trust to watch his back when the game comes out. Sue me.), and they were talking about the space combat engine. One entry touched on the fact that they had to slightly dumb down the actuel interaction of the bridge crew, AND limit the entire thing to a 2d plane, becuase, and I'm paraphising here, "Most people arnt the types that enjoy accurate, complicated simmulations that take time to learn." I realized why FO is so amazing then...we're a terribly small niche market. The bad news is, most people simply dont produce products for a niche market...no profit in it. Good news is, FO stated they'd have to charge us quite a bit for the product, and we all nodded and signed up as fast as we could.

What I'm trying to say is, the nature of the "game" will keep the idiots out. All we have to do is ensure THEIR whining never wins, and FO gets dumbed down for them.


By the by, could someone give me a link to what this "FPS + Flight sim" thing is? I hit the one above and got some sort of mission download pack for F4. However,

One, as above, realism itself will save the balance. Even if you had us cleaning our weapons (I say Us...played WAY to many fps'), even if you had us complete totally realistic basic training and MoS courses, you're STILL in action far faster with far less to think about than if your a sargent, a Lt., a tank driver, an intel guy, a pilot, etc. You get completly past the whole "moron in a jet" issue BF2 has with simple realism. The more dangerus an idiot IS in some position, the harder it is to qualify for it.


Two, that IS, yes, what we're aiming for eventually isn't it? A war. Simmed out in detail. Every single position open for a human to take up the reigns of, but AI filling in where people do not. I'm not ashamed to say I wile away quite a few nights picturing an rl friend calling for a SARs to pick up a pilot that punched out right along the FLOT, who himself is now hidding in the bushes with a very small pistol in his hands, unsure of where he was or how he'd get back, and my helicopter detachment recives the call, thus starting a low and fast run to the front, requesting from ground units intel on any down aircraft in the area and having AWACS vector us around any furballs. When that moment hits, I dont care how detailed and complex the sim is.


Our time will have arrived.

And it will be good.


...and I shall do this. ----> :alcohol:


------

Subs17, you hit it on the head. When the console and pc market can link to the same game, even a normally niche market will have enough people to support FULL ON big bucks development. We'd start seeing the Doom 3's and Half Life 2's of the flight sim world. *shiver* One question though. Barring a keyboard, there's just no way a console can control a sim the way a Keyboard can. Even with the most realistic Hotas set up possible, there are simply switches and buttons one MUST reach down into the cockpit for, and for us, that's simmed out as the little rectangle of plastic in front of us with funny symbols on it. How would a console answer the control issue?

[SUBS17]

X-box360 can have a keyboard and Hotas, PS3 will probably be the same.
http://operationflashpoint.filefront.com/file/FFUR_1985_Video_Top_Gun_Bonus;48412
http://operationflashpoint.filefront.com/file/FFUR_1985_Video;47902

The realism alone will remove the FPS junkys that ruin games. Maybe on the main server would be a requirement for players to be members of a country/Army/Navy/Air Force. From what I've read there are Squads that play OFP quite realistically.

[R.A.D.]

Hey, i was mainly referring on my comment to the possible fps addon to the project, perhaps i misunderstood thinking that it would be less demanding and realistic than the flight part.
On the other hand its true that the overall flight sim community, is one of the few that its full of polite and friendly people which also likes competition in a good way, all squadrons and players i had contact with were like that. That contributes to make the flight simulators more worthy because the online experience is always a good one, so i was afraid that adding members of other more massive communities would ruin the whole thing:sad: . But as you said lets have faith that developers will take this into account. :thumb:

ps: lonhe i totally agree with the voip thing, i was once in a squad in bf2 that was being commanded by a 10 year old kid that didnt stop yelling because his 11 year old friends squad had more kills. That day i uninstalled bf2 and destroyed the disk just in case.

[BignChunky]

RAD, I can agree with you about the effects on enlarging a community, but if we want to see more flightsims out there, and to develop them the flightsim community has to open up for everybody, so that more people get into contact with them.....

[Dukey]

I dont think there is much risk of getting simple people from the fps world into simulation, i do play counter strike source a lot and its great, i can jump in and stab people to death in a matter of seconds; but I would hate to see that sort of attitude leaking into the simulation world.

Now with the plan for FO being the large war simulator could there be idiots running around shooting thier own team mates and shouting "NOOB"? i don't think so. I think if they install this game and have to go through training so they can just clean a weapon and fire it 50% of them would fall asleep on their keyboards and die. The other 50% would get into the battle field find out that they had to drive 10 miles to the FLOT get in a helo and fly for 20 min to get to the town that had just been attacked by a flight of F18s and apache's; and secure it, so it could be occupied by the friendly forces. After shooting 1 or 2 enemy that had been out to lunch at the time of the air attack and taking a few others prisoner the FPS gamer would be board off his\her tits would uninstall the game shout "pwned" and go back to BF2.
As for getting through the UPT, ha i dont think they are going to want to learn about AOA rates of decent emergencys etc.

In my opinion only the dedicated people will play simulations, and i also think that there are more in this world, they just need waking up to the idea.
And the release of FO should do the job.

[razorseal]

there is WWIIOL... been around for a while, the graphics arent top notch, but the game is 5-6 years old now.... I used to beta for that game, the amount of detail to specs that the devs give in that game is insane... such as muzzle velocity etc. that game is actually very realistic when it comes to 'specs'

the map itself is half the size of europe (1:2 scale) its purdy crazy, I stopped playing cuz it would take forever for u to get from one city to another with a tank, only to be killed by an ambush lol

the airborne troops are fun as hell though

its always fun as hell to get a stuka, and go on a dive to a tank, or duke it out with a tank batallion with buncha Infantry which usually is just massacare :D

[klhaviation]

I think the expansion is a double edged sword. It needs to happen to keep complex combat simming alive and well, but as we all know too well the more people the more idiots...To be honest I do not multiplayer on flight sims for this reason. I just don't even want to bother with it.

I have never actually run into a jackass on a multiplayer flight sim sesson, but I have played battlefield and other multiplayer games enough to know that eventually someone is going to ruin my day...I just don't like dealing with it alltogether.

But we do need to expand as a community at large, so I think we will have to be as open and friendly to new folks as possible. I can speak from experience when I say that HiFi flight simmers tend to be a closed egotistical group (not unfriendly or mean just very stubborn). Please note this is not a slam or critisim. I think with the time and effort we put into mastering these sims allows some of us a little sim-ego.

It will be interesting to see how MP action works out if FO is going the direction to have megaMP action.

Just my 2 cents:smile:

[Buckshot]

The key is to get with people who are like minded, join or form a squad and fly together. I've been involved in online squadrons, and you totally eliminate the problems you find on open bf2 servers.

Likewise when we get to the point where we have FPS simulations integrated, there's no reason why you couldn't have a FO fighter squadron, linked with a FO infantry clan, etc for a very realistic experience with all the people like minded, looking for a realistic experience. At the same time the reverse can be true, people who are just wanting to play around, teamkill, or whatever they want, can get together and do their own thing with people who are like minded.

[Lohne]

I agree completly.

We ARE a stubborn bunch..but it's only the stubborness born of reaching for perfection that we exhibit. We offer the same level of comradire to those that fly and fight with us as much as we expect our developers to create the ultimate experince for us. The fact that EVERYONE here is allready prepared, happily, to drop the 500 bones on the first FO module says enough on that. We arn't children. We demand the best...when we get it, were all to happy to pay for it and learn it.


And BuckShots right as well. It's all about giving people that could be interested a helping first step. You remember the first time you ever played Unreal Tournament? Counter (gag) Strike? Quake Arena? And had the audacity to ask for help? That was a kind set of responses, wasn't it?

-FroFro = STFU
-BigBallz = OMFG you loose
-Aidz = You n0000bzzz!


So,all we have to do is be ourselves...and we'll improve the size of the community naturally. Course having a top notch piece of software like FO to start with is going to make that much easier.

[Buckshot]

Just to clarify one thing, $500 is not and never has been discussed as a price for FO. I think a forum member posted that as a joke on one of the threads. Basically unless you see a sig like mine on a post with information like that, it's from someone outside of the team and should not be taken as gospel.

[Cobra]

http://fighterpit.com/images/owned.jpg

[Pacman]

Yeah,

We were joking around in a thread with those 500$, or was it yens??:wink2:

Hey cobra turn off those glowskins!!!:mad:

[IceManHG]

I was gonna say......

[Lohne]

Course it wouldnt HAVE to be that much for each module. Our beloved team is overcoming the low profit issue of giving a niche market what it wants by having all niche markets eventually in one game. How many people will buy detailed sub sims? Dosn't matter if you've got a dozen other ones supporting the team while they work. Ingenius really.