View Full Version : Centre Stick VS side stick
Which do you prefer and why?
I'd really prefer a centre stick as I associate that more with flying in my head than a side stick but previous experiments with puting it at tub floor level have shown that the stick hits your legs so you have to adjust it and lose some resolution. I thought about a cougar or X45 on a centre console but I'm not sure if that will work. I'll need to try and rig something up and see. I don't think a side stick is as comfortable or looks as "plane like" but thats just me.
I'm looking for ideas and images of centre sticks in fasts jets. Any of you have a pit at home with a centre stick. Did you make it? did you modify an existing stick and if so what have you done about the increase in travel. I haven't seen anything very usefull retail either.
ruprecht
02-20-2005, 18:35
http://users.acninc.net/padipaul/HBCP.htm
Centre stick made from modified X-45
The F/a-18 series use a centre stick:
http://pitblog.radsy.com/archives/00000027.htm
Buckshot
02-20-2005, 18:46
If you are going to use a center stick, and want it to be realistic, you are going to have to do a bit of work getting the correct amount of travel. Side sticks are certainly the way of the future, F16, F22, F35 are all using side sticks, even some of the new Airbuses are going sidestick.
ruprecht
02-20-2005, 19:03
The reason I'm going for a centre stick in my pit is so that it can double as a helo cyclic. Trying to fly a decent helo sim with a side stick is terrible.
Buckshot is right though, sidestick is the way of the future.
Sun Stealer
02-20-2005, 20:16
Side sticks are fine if you have an elbow rest. Then you can relax your shoulder/arm. I suppose its more natural for guys to grip something in the middle. :wink2:
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Marvin157th
02-20-2005, 21:18
I think it all matters with how realistic you prefer to be.. I for one prefer realism thus I of course have a side stick for my Viper. I presonally find the side stick very comfortable specially when it is a force sensor stick like SCC or FSSB or the real thing. When I had my cougars at the side with that full range of motion it got very tiresome doing dogfights.
As for the other planes, it really never bothers me when I fly Choppers in OFP or something with a side stick, to me its mind of matter. :D
Another note though.. You don't really need a rest for side sticks either. I never had problems with it anyway. Even with this real stick I have which is about 22 lbs for full deflection. Mayeb it just depends on the person. I know being a big guy and lifting lots of weights helps for me! :D Not to sound sexist or anything, but I really find it hard to believe a woman can fly a VIper with the amount of force to move the stick. I just don't know how they do it???
Marvin
Ruprecht, thanks for the links.
Buckshot, I know its the travel thats got me worried. I guess the nearer the floor I sit the better.
Sunstealer, I think it's all the films I saw as a child make me associate centre sticks with flying but I reckon you've got a point.
Marvin, If I thought I could build a pit 25% as good as yours I'd be tempted by a side stick but I don't think I can manage something as realistic as you have anyway. Keep up the work I'm in awe man.
I'll keep looking for ideas and let you guys know how it turns out.
Marvin157th
02-21-2005, 17:19
Wollo,
You be surprised what you can do if you are patient and research enough.
My first sim I ever built in 97, consisted of a car seat built into a wood framing with arm rests that concealed my F-16 FLCS and TQS. I painted it all black and it looked great, and served the purpose and only took a few hours to make. So I guess I am trying to say that if you are looking for simple design, putting the stick on the side will be easier and more compatable then trying to put a stick in the center.
For your consideration
Marvin
Marvin,
I'm plenty patient I'm building prototypes from modeling cardboard now. I guess I'm just stunned by your work. The tub could well be the best I've seen yet. Some of the cockpit building around just now is awesome, very proffesional.
Bill
Marvin157th
02-22-2005, 12:50
Wollo,
Well thank you for the compliments. I am sure yours will turn out just as nice as long as your heart is put into it. And seems as though you are! It almost seems as though my cockpit is becoming obsolete as many new builders are looking into fiberglass or metal. I would have like to wen with those materials to save on weight, however with my skills and resources wood was the best option to make something as realistic as I did.
Take care
Marvin
Marvin,
I'm plenty patient I'm building prototypes from modeling cardboard now. I guess I'm just stunned by your work. The tub could well be the best I've seen yet. Some of the cockpit building around just now is awesome, very proffesional.
Bill
Sun Stealer
02-22-2005, 18:25
Another note though.. You don't really need a rest for side sticks either. I never had problems with it anyway. Even with this real stick I have which is about 22 lbs for full deflection. Mayeb it just depends on the person. I know being a big guy and lifting lots of weights helps for me! :D Not to sound sexist or anything, but I really find it hard to believe a woman can fly a VIper with the amount of force to move the stick. I just don't know how they do it???
I guess weights would help, but I'm way to lazy for that, lol. I think the position of the stick and seat has a lot to do with it too. This old office chair is not as comfortable as a bang seat.
As for viperesses, I suppose they just imagine they have a certain peice of their ex boyfriend/husband in their hands. :wink2:
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Marvin157th
02-22-2005, 22:53
Sun Stealer,
K, maybe I need to change my thoughts... I got hit by flak the other day, and it caused my plane to roll constantly.. Let me tell you even after full trim I had to fly with 2 hands most of the time to keep the plane level.. That was every painful for 22 lbs of pressure and holding it for a 35 minute flight back home!! :(
Marvin
I guess weights would help, but I'm way to lazy for that, lol. I think the position of the stick and seat has a lot to do with it too. This old office chair is not as comfortable as a bang seat.
As for viperesses, I suppose they just imagine they have a certain peice of their ex boyfriend/husband in their hands. :wink2:
.
ruprecht
02-22-2005, 23:08
Hey Marvin, that's the good stuff eh. Some of my favourite flightsim memories are of limping home with a damaged aircraft. Seperates the men from the boys, those that will nurse it home against those that just bang out and restart.
Thats dedication man, but its worth it in points if you successfully land after destroying something or shooting someone else down.
Marvin157th
02-23-2005, 11:33
Hey Marvin, that's the good stuff eh. Some of my favourite flightsim memories are of limping home with a damaged aircraft. Seperates the men from the boys, those that will nurse it home against those that just bang out and restart.
Amen brother!!!
While we are on dedication thoughts?? A couple weeks ago, I was on a long mission in Iraq, and had to jettison my external tanks, so to make a long story short, I needed fuel to make it home. I don't like going to divert fields specially when they are just a few miles from the FLOT. Just does not seem realistic to me.
It was pitch black dark out, and I did not want to use my NVGs.. So I thought to myself, I never really tried refueling in pitch black before. Although it was tuff to get into formation with the KC-135, I was able to refuel no problem thanks to FF3 models, having flashing clearance lights on the belly and tail. On another note, it was pretty damn cool tanking with those lights flashing in your face!
Marvin
Sun Stealer
02-23-2005, 19:50
That was every painful for 22 lbs of pressure and holding it for a 35 minute flight back home!! :(
:thumb: Wouldn't have it any other way.
Got to have my FSSB at 10lbs for now, as the boxes that they're mounted on move around too much at a higher force (despite having old engineering bricks inside them). Guess I'll just have to make a proper pit. What a shame. :smile:
.
Marvin157th
02-24-2005, 12:43
Sun Stealer,
I know the feeling.. When I had my FSSB it was set at 6lbs due to the same reason of non-mounted stick base. What I did notice was a real pain, was the fact that while pulling hard Gs in knife fights I had a hard time knowing if I was at max pressure or just losing power. Now that I have my SSC mounted and in a fixed position, my mind knows when I have full pressure on the stick, and makes it much easier to get feedback of what I am doing to my plane.
Just incase others have the same problem, mounting the base really helps.
Marvin's 2 cents.
:thumb: Wouldn't have it any other way.
Got to have my FSSB at 10lbs for now, as the boxes that they're mounted on move around too much at a higher force (despite having old engineering bricks inside them). Guess I'll just have to make a proper pit. What a shame. :smile:
.
Sun Stealer
02-25-2005, 17:32
What I did notice was a real pain, was the fact that while pulling hard Gs in knife fights I had a hard time knowing if I was at max pressure or just losing power.
Yep, sounds familiar. Doubt if I've had mine at max pressure yet for that reason. Its frustrating when your losing a turning fight with a Tu-16. :jester:
Do you have a metal chassis in your pit, or is it just wood?
Cheers.
.
Well when I start making my pit it will have a side stick. I find them comfortable, and since I work on F-16's and A-10's I have acess to the cockpit's. A center stick to me seems uncomfortable, but I guess for a guy that use's the center stick a side will feel that way.
Any one wanting to build a center stick might be interested in these picture from early construction of my T-38 sim. If you want close up photos of the unit, let me know.
John
Marvin157th
05-02-2005, 18:09
John,
That is quite interesting. Very nice! :D What kind of resistance do you have on that stick?
Marvin
Any one wanting to build a center stick might be interested in these picture from early construction of my T-38 sim. If you want close up photos of the unit, let me know.
John
Nice setup you have there, does the real T38 have its axis through the floor or does it have ball joint halfway up?
Hi Marvin & Subs,
I have 5 lbs of feels in the pitch and somewhat less in roll. I know the real airplane uses a force feel of about 5 lbs at normal maneuvers. I am not sure of the roll force. I had to rely on my 30 year old memory of what "Felt right."
It took some time to get the springing correct.
Subs, the real T-38 has the stick coming out the floor. I made a copy of the stick design from photos.
John
jmiguez, brilliant work. I'd be interested in as much detail on your design as you would be happy to send me @ wollo@woowaa.co.uk. Is the sticks travel realistic? how uch would that be ?
Wollo, the stick will travel as far as you want it, within reason, of course. :smile:
Here are some details of the design. These are taken from an older design. I later redid the design using 3/32" steel plate and a 1.25" thin wall steel tube to hold the two compression springs. This design uses aluminum and PVC tubing.
I will start another post with a couple of other pictures to give you a better idea of the spring chamber.
John
Here are some other pictures of the control stick design. The first one shows the new design. I have changed the roll spring design slightly, since that picture was taken.
The rest show some close up of the original design. The newer design is the sam. I have only upgraded some of the materials.
Feel free to ask any questions.
John
John,
Thanks for the pics, I'm studying them now. This is something I'm considering now.
Bill
Nice, I might resort to that if I can't make a ball joint halfway up for my Super Hornet pit.
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