View Full Version : Do think the F22 and Joint strike fighter
FALCON1377
09-05-2004, 12:57
Going get all the bug,s out of the f22 the air force said the f22 has cumpter problem,s they all said the JFS is to heavy. Im hopingthat thay can,t fix them because ihated to see the F16 and F15 and A10 mothball Iknow that we spent big buck on them. Air show,s won,t be the same . Duncan Harrington FALCON 1377 Thank,s :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns:
FALCON1377
09-05-2004, 13:02
I ment to say do you think :confused: :confused: :confused:
problems with the f-22 has been resolved.
New carriers will have stronger decks to support the JSF.
Buckshot
09-18-2004, 01:45
Had the pleasure of seeing the F-22 in action at Nellis, man what a sweet jet. The interesting thing is you talk to viper drivers about dogfighting and virtually any aircraft you care to name, Mig29, Su27, F15 etc they are not worried in the slightest about going one on one with, up close and personal, about the only aircraft I've ever heard a viper pilot concede was any challenge is the F-18, and it's the same with F18 pilots I talk with the only aircraft they find challenging in a dogfight is the F16 (and these are guys who have flown against Mig29's). The outstanding response when you mention the F-22 though is that they do not want to mess with that thing at all, from all accounts the raptor has been whuping F15 and F16 butt all over the Nellis ranges, and they still haven't unleashed it to it's full potential.
Spyder-F16
09-20-2004, 19:14
They should have a get together with the ruskies, Germans, and French and see who has the better jet.
F/A-22, Vs. EuroFighter Typhoon vs. Rafale, vs. Su-37.
Buckshot
09-21-2004, 01:58
F22 vs Typhoon, Rafale and Su-37 yeah that'd be a fair fight :wink2: Maybe we could even it up a bit more by letting the other three jets win if they could just get the Raptor on the radar screen before they died.
Had the pleasure of seeing the F-22 in action at Nellis, man what a sweet jet. The interesting thing is you talk to viper drivers about dogfighting and virtually any aircraft you care to name, Mig29, Su27, F15 etc they are not worried in the slightest about going one on one with, up close and personal, about the only aircraft I've ever heard a viper pilot concede was any challenge is the F-18, and it's the same with F18 pilots I talk with the only aircraft they find challenging in a dogfight is the F16 (and these are guys who have flown against Mig29's). The outstanding response when you mention the F-22 though is that they do not want to mess with that thing at all, from all accounts the raptor has been whuping F15 and F16 butt all over the Nellis ranges, and they still haven't unleashed it to it's full potential.
Yep, go over to Frugals and check out the F-22 videos here (http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=71300). That thing is pretty impressive. And who knows what else it can do that they won't show us. After it's all said and done we may be harping FO for an F-22 sim... :wink2:
Wipsnake
09-21-2004, 07:55
They don't call them the "crapter" for no reason. hence apprarently they are over rated crap.
Buckshot
09-21-2004, 08:11
Dunno, from what I've seen and heard from various pilots and ground crew, if anything they are under-rated, simply because most of the really cool stuff is still classified, but just from what is freely known they are an amazing aircraft.
*Merlin*
09-24-2004, 10:11
Had the pleasure of seeing the F-22 in action at Nellis, man what a sweet jet. The interesting thing is you talk to viper drivers about dogfighting and virtually any aircraft you care to name, Mig29, Su27, F15 etc they are not worried in the slightest about going one on one with, up close and personal, about the only aircraft I've ever heard a viper pilot concede was any challenge is the F-18, and it's the same with F18 pilots I talk with the only aircraft they find challenging in a dogfight is the F16 (and these are guys who have flown against Mig29's). The outstanding response when you mention the F-22 though is that they do not want to mess with that thing at all, from all accounts the raptor has been whuping F15 and F16 butt all over the Nellis ranges, and they still haven't unleashed it to it's full potential.
I have heard from several pilots here at Nellis that the 22 is just to much to handle.
Just looking at the 22 while does a touch and go is awesome.
Merlin
Sun Stealer
09-24-2004, 18:32
They don't call them the "crapter" for no reason. hence apprarently they are over rated crap.
Well, in years to come when you are modelling its gadgets for us, you can let us know. :smile:
But seriously, do you think they are really going to produce a 'crap' aircraft? I don't think so. It'll be awsome dude (putting on my best US accent)! :smile:
Funny thing is the Swedish have their advanced Aircraft already in service for many years, the gripen. it can take on anything from f16 to f15. Our airforce his already receiving the "Ty Fighters" and who cares, the 22 is worth nothing if the pilots dont know how to use the technology, and i DO know that our luftwaffe pilots know how to use the Typhoon. I have this nice picture of a USAF F-15 C in the Gunsight of a german F-4F Phantom, very entertaining
Funny thing is the Swedish have their advanced Aircraft already in service for many years, the gripen. it can take on anything from f16 to f15. Our airforce his already receiving the "Ty Fighters" and who cares, the 22 is worth nothing if the pilots dont know how to use the technology, and i DO know that our luftwaffe pilots know how to use the Typhoon. I have this nice picture of a USAF F-15 C in the Gunsight of a german F-4F Phantom, very entertaining
Dont worry. Noobs wont be flying F-22... I'm sure that all air forces know how to fly their a/c so not only luftwaffe pilots know how to fly Typhoon
Sundowner
06-11-2005, 16:33
I wouldn’t call the Gripen an advanced aircraft… its still 4th generation and in one on one BVR fight it doesn’t have any chance with Raptor, at close range raptor with its Aim-9X is better too. So is the Typhoon with Iris-T. Well if it comes to missiles all US aircraft would be better at close range now, since Gripen uses only AIM-9L, and its still long way for him to get Iris-T.
Ginuwine
06-12-2005, 02:24
Yep, go over to Frugals and check out the F-22 videos here (http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=71300). That thing is pretty impressive. And who knows what else it can do that they won't show us. After it's all said and done we may be harping FO for an F-22 sim... :wink2:
Hey I can't seem to find the video can you hook me up with another link or something? Or even more direction to find it.
:bigsmile:
F22 vs Typhoon, Rafale and Su-37 yeah that'd be a fair fight Maybe we could even it up a bit more by letting the other three jets win if they could just get the Raptor on the radar screen before they died.
You have forgotten the SPECTRA and the OSF and the MICA IF on the Rafale:
-SPECTRA detect Radar signal of the F-22,
-SPECTRA jammer switched on, F-22 can't lock Rafale,
-F-22 detected on OSF lock it,
-MICA IF fired, IR signature is so big to be hidden and MICA IF and OSF range permit to him to shut down bandit.
The APG-77 send a low signal, that any RWR can detect, so, you can see only the AIM-120 radar when it is in pitbull...
more, the jammer isn't so effective, the APG-77 can lock Mirage also with it, and if it can't, he go wit AIM-9X
more, the jammer isn't so effective, the APG-77 can lock Mirage also with it, and if it can't, he go wit AIM-9X
SPECTRA is a next generation jammer who include fonction to make the plane stealth with electronic sytems.
Before the F-22 launch AIM-9X, the Rafale will already launched a MICA IR which have a great range with OSF (passive radar).
Sundowner
06-12-2005, 13:28
-SPECTRA jammer switched on, F-22 can't lock Rafale,So raptor launch AIM-120 in Home-On-Jam mode :wink2:
The 22 will kill anything. Its very easy to forget in all its sexy lines that opposing radars cannot see it! Send up any of the fighters listed here and they will die quickly and never know what hit them. They are fighting 22's 2v6 here at Nellis(2 Raptors, 6 of whatever else ya wanna toss in) Raptors are dominating. Grab
Afterburner
06-13-2005, 03:51
But Congress has dropped orders to like 100 odd from the initial 900+ ? I wonder if they will increase the numbers......how are 100+ Raptors suppose to be shared by all the Staes......... :doh:
But Congress has dropped orders to like 100 odd from the initial 900+ ? I wonder if they will increase the numbers......how are 100+ Raptors suppose to be shared by all the Staes......... :doh:
Are you sure? I thing the numbers are between 295-330 now...
Afterburner
06-13-2005, 09:54
Well thats what I read......not sure if there was an update on this that I am unaware of........ :smile:
I meant to say --> States :doh:
Are you sure? I thing the numbers are between 295-330 now...
The exact number is 170 I've read on the Official F-22 site.
Afterburner
06-13-2005, 16:23
The exact number is 170 I've read on the Official F-22 site.
Thanx for the info....... :smile: Like I was sayin before 170 to be shared by all States ?? 2 to defend the White House ?? 4 for Air Force One ?? Jus wonderin......... :red:
Spyder-F16
06-22-2005, 02:33
Few will be put on alert status in key locations. Some will be for escort, and the rest will probably be put in a few squadrons to be used as needed to establish air superority in operations as needed.
Redstormer
06-22-2005, 04:14
SPECTRA is a next generation jammer who include fonction to make the plane stealth with electronic sytems.
Before the F-22 launch AIM-9X, the Rafale will already launched a MICA IR which have a great range with OSF (passive radar).
Making a plane stealth with electronics? IMHO is that an indication for an enemy when there are electronic countermeasures in a specific area, that in that specific area there is an enemy aircraft.
In short: electronic countermessures do not only hide but they also give an enemy an indication there is something happening.
RCGsupra
06-22-2005, 20:37
I just got back from a TDY to Nellis w/ my unit (157th SC Air Guard) and our pilot had the chance to go up against the 22. Our guys are flying block 52 vipers w/ JHMCS and very experienced pilots. When they came back from their sortie, I asked one of them how they did. He told me that withing 30 seconds of entering the fight, the whole four ship got the call that they were all dead by two F-22's. He said he just laughed b/c they could not see anything and there was nothing they could do. I asked another one of our pilots how the would do against a 22 if they got into a dogfight. His response was "If they decided to let us merge, we would still have our hands full." So basically, when the thing works, it's unstoppable.
Afterburner
06-23-2005, 10:29
Jeeeesus...... :bigeyes:
Spyder-F16
07-04-2005, 04:48
Wouldve been funny to hear the radio calls.
"Tower: Ok, SCANG F-16s, you are cleared to start Red Flag Exercises"
"F-16's: Roger."
"Tower: Umm... I take that back... you're already 'dead'... 30 seconds... man..."
Playloud
07-08-2005, 09:54
He told me that withing 30 seconds of entering the fight, the whole four ship got the call that they were all dead by two F-22's.While I believe everything happened like you said, I wouldn't be surprised if the AF was calling Vipers down early, to make the Raptor look God-like.
"If they decided to let us merge, we would still have our hands full."Classic!
The Bush administration unfortunately has proposed cutting $10 billion from the F/A-22 program over the next 5 years, leaving enough to buy 183 of the 381 planes the Air Force says it needs.The original plan was for 750 aircraft. The number has worked its way down in the past 15 years.
Getting to one squadron per AEF requires a fleet of 381 F/A-22s. Officials say having two squadrons per AEF would take a total inventory of 762 F/A-22s.I am very disappointed with Bush. He was supposed to be the president who would modernize the military that was neglected during the Clinton years. I have no problem with building new weapons to fight the new wars, but we can't forget how to fight the old wars as well (by that I mean having unquestioned control of the air). China is buying/building a large number of Su-27 Flankers, and if we ever got into a beef with them, I would prefer the Raptor be on our side in decent numbers.
Playloud in all respects to you I offer this. Yes we have cut our F-22 fleet way down, however, that money that was allocated has gone somewhere,where? who knows but we all know that the U.S.A is big on Black programs and I am sure that a good plan involving ALL AVAILABLE tools is in play, not just the tools we know about. Just a thought. Grab
Playloud
07-08-2005, 23:29
Thanks for the reply Grab. This is definately a possibility. Jimmy Carter cancelled the B1 program, and at the time, it was said the reason was because he wanted to fund cruise missile development instead. If I remember my reading correctly, the real reason was he knew the B2 was in development, and thought the B1 would have been a waste. The B2 was a black program, so nobody knew of his real motives.
We now have the USAF saying they need a minimum of 381 Raptors, and I take the word of the USAF in this matter. One squadron per AEF sounds like a reasonable minimum force. If there is a black program that would make the Raptor obsolete (Klingon Bird of Prey?), then I wonder why they have let the funding continue to this point. They (the government) funded all the R&D and testing of the F/A-22 Raptor. The hard part is over. All that remains in building the aircraft.
If there is a new Black Super Plane out there, I think they would have cancelled the Raptor program long ago, and saved a lot of money. I could be wrong about this, but without any specific information on a possible alternative aircraft, I have to form my opinion on what I do know (what has been made public).
Our pilots deserve the Raptor when they fly into combat. There is no reason they should have to fly a plane that is at parity with other designs out there, when the Raptor has been fully tested. All they need to do now is build the plane in numbers. If the stories about 1 Raptor taking out 5 Eagles is true, then the money should be spent on building a good force of Raptors. If there is a black program out there that makes the Raptor obsolete, then I will eat my words when the plane decloakes in front of the public.
Now this is just simply my opinion but I feel a squad of Raptors for every AEF(6 cycles, 3 months each) is overkill. If you really think about it a squad of Rappys can be in theatre and ready to kill in 72 hours, this is very fast and what we need. The problem I see is an over tasking of the F-22 if all hell breaks loose which although unlikely is possible. Once again in my opinion, control of the air is not our problem, bring your Su-27's and Mig 29's, those aircraft are not capable of what is the most underestimated factor of air war, regeneration rate. Between the Brits, the U.S., and the Aussies for instance only, we can fly around the clock till we run out of pilots, our jets break and we fix them quickly due to the ability to cannabilize parts and the genious that is our supply system. If an Eastern block aircraft goes down for parts, that is what it is, DOWN for parts, waiting for a part specifically made for that particular aircraft. I can walk out on any ramp with up to block 40/42 Vipers and slap one on a Thunderbird F-16, must say as much as I cuss them, the developers of our current and future fleet knew what they were doing when it came to combat readiness. To put it in a simulation point of view I give you Falcon 4.0. The first day of a Rolling Fire Campaign is the venerable "wall of Migs" , make it through the first day and air superiority is for the most part yours, this is real life no B.S. true, whether intended or not a great example of modern war being a marathon, not a sprint. Great post my man. Grab
Grab, isnt that underestimating the resourcefulness of the other side? If Red Air was gearing up for a big surge, dont you think, SOMEONE in the chain would think 'Hmmm, parts A, B, C, G, K, L and X are Critical to have a supply of and Parts D, F, H, I, W and Y are the most often BREAKING parts, so we'll make an effort to stockpile these, so when it comes time, we can generate as high a sortie rate as possible, and keep airframes down for minimal time'?
Now i understand youre the professional, so your assessement to me, hold significant weight, but i also have to defer to logic a bit here. The bad guys are smart (maybe not smart enough to build something that kills a Raptor right now), they have combat and flight ops experience too, and Im 100% positive they understand supply considerations (even if the Falcon 4.0 campaign engine doesnt... ;) ).
My thoughts would be, the only limiting factor on Red Air SHORT TERM, to mount a high availibility surge, would be the lack of money in some of their supply systems now. This would of course GREATLY affect a SUDDEN reactionary force or Quick Deployment Force, but if RED Air is going to be Pre-emptive, im sure someone would sort out the funds and the Supply Channel...
Long Term tho, i suspect would be a VERY different story...
Playloud
07-09-2005, 03:16
With the amount of times I have been shot down while dealing with the "Wall of MiGs", I can't help but want the Raptor even more. hehe
:owned: <------ me after dealing with the "Wall of MiGs"
Buckshot
07-09-2005, 03:23
Not a bad point Zaggs, from what I understand the soviet aircraft are pretty sturdy, but when they break they really break, (if that makes any sense, lol). Western aircraft are built for ease of maintenance, swapping out an engine in an F18 or F16 seems to be an amazingly simple procedure, from what I understand of the migs and su's most parts are throw away items, it's just a different logic I guess.
I'm sure the experts on the team will clarify this a lot better than I can, but I certainly do think you have a good point also that relying on the other side's jets breaking down doesn't sound like a very safe position to be in, you'd want to account for worst case scenario and any breaks you get are a bonus.
I used to mess round with some guys who worked on a Privately owned MiG-21 we used to fly out of Williamtown. That thing was STURDY!!! If it went down, you hit it with a hammer, and brought the aircraft back up... That was the black-hand side of it tho. Avionics side, i dont know what really happened there, but to my knowledge, the a/c never went down for long due to avionics going U/S. And this was a privately owned a/c, so there was no real supply chain in effect. Most of the spare parts that were stocked were mechanical, and if avionics stuff broke, from what i understand, most of the time i was a quick, simple fix...
Engine Swappingt he MiG-21, i dont know about... I never saw the donk out of the airframe (altho it did come out a few times i think)... As for Su-27 and MiG-29 series a/c, the podded engine housing design, SHOULD make engine swaps easier... And the fact theyre marketting these a/c to lower-tech and small airforces, suggests to me, that they have simplified maintenance; which they claim.
But yeah.... ;)
Good points Zaggy, very good. I was mainly referring to long term conflict. This is definately not what we would count on, we want them up and in the air so we can kill, however from a maint. side we have them covered, we have the money for parts, the ease of maint(although it is by no means easy), and the pilots to sustain combat operations. The worst thing we could do is underestimate an enemy for obvious reasons to all here. The facts are in this thread, Russian Airframes are very sturdy, realiability of parts that make a fighter lethal and the ability to procure them is suspect. I do shudder a bit at the thought of China with their growing wealth and ability to better Russian technology, would be a knock down drag out affair and he who had the best tactics would win IMO.
Sundowner
07-09-2005, 20:07
Well do not underestimate your opponent, there is a joke here, that thirdElt will confirm:
In winter what do you need for F-16 to prepare it for flight ?
- dozen of men, heated hangar and a lot of weird equipment.
And what do you need for mig-29?
- warm jacket and a shovel !
:bigsmile:
Playloud take a look at the Northrop Grumman “Switchblade” that would be very interesting peace of fighter – fast, agile, stealth etc…. but the cost would be probably enormous.
Hehe trust me, me and me alone could ready a Viper for flight in 5 minuites in whatever weather you choose to toss at me and my jet, my pilot could then take said jet, put 4,000 lbs of bombs through a factory window, return and me and 1 weapons crew(3guys) could turn that jet and do it all over again in an hour :). Whatever the competition has to say to make themselves feel better :). Grab
P.S. In all this it may be mistaken that I feel the Russian's are my enemy, I consider them allies, they have just exported alot of jets and just don't want it confused that when I say Russian technology I am not referring to the Russian military.
Grab, yeah, the Chinese are the concern ATM... the Fact that they are building J-11/Su30MKK locally = Technology Transfer, which basically also translates into the ability to independantly support their a/c... IIRC, The ENGINES they still buy (and dont have a licence to manufacture, or at least, they didnt at one stage... this may have changed) but given the Chinese history of Reverse Engineering, im sure they know the engines now, and are able to manufacture replacement parts, or possibily whole engines if the need arose!
Grab, yeah, the Chinese are the concern ATM... the Fact that they are building J-11/Su30MKK locally = Technology Transfer, which basically also translates into the ability to independantly support their a/c... IIRC, The ENGINES they still buy (and dont have a licence to manufacture, or at least, they didnt at one stage... this may have changed) but given the Chinese history of Reverse Engineering, im sure they know the engines now, and are able to manufacture replacement parts, or possibily whole engines if the need arose!
Buddy I'll bet in a heartbeat they are building their own engines, who is gonna take the right route to stop them? Russia does not need any waves with the Chinese.
I dont doubt youre right.... Actually, i think they got a right to build the engines for thier J-10's...
Now there is a team you dont want to be going up against.... J-10 and J-11/Su30MKK! The only positive is the fact that China has them in minimal numbers when compared to USN/USAF numbers...
I dont doubt youre right.... Actually, i think they got a right to build the engines for thier J-10's...
Now there is a team you dont want to be going up against.... J-10 and J-11/Su30MKK! The only positive is the fact that China has them in minimal numbers when compared to USN/USAF numbers...
And we have the F-22 :)
Playloud
07-12-2005, 05:51
If we decide to actually build more than a few of them... :mad:
Afterburner
07-12-2005, 07:00
Yea......though I'm not American, I am pissed with the way the Raptor and Comanche programs have been handled :nono:
Spyder-F16
07-28-2005, 05:16
Playloud in all respects to you I offer this. Yes we have cut our F-22 fleet way down, however, that money that was allocated has gone somewhere,where? who knows but we all know that the U.S.A is big on Black programs and I am sure that a good plan involving ALL AVAILABLE tools is in play, not just the tools we know about. Just a thought. Grab
Yeah... For example... 3,000$ dollar ashtrays, 10,000$ toilet seats...
fatb0y60
07-29-2005, 05:36
I used to mess round with some guys who worked on a Privately owned MiG-21 we used to fly out of Williamtown.
Hey Zaggy, i wonder, is that still there because my grandfather owns a coupple of big hangers at rockhampton QLD and i for sure know there is a MIG-15 out there and i have a very strong feeling he said there was a
MIG-21 out there also. I dont belive it is flying however ( the 15 is ) im quite sure the 21 is in shipping containers. All that said, there shouldnt be that many around so it could be the same one ?
Planes for sale: http://www.amw.com.pl/zos_catalog.php?cZosPath=5
Armoured vehicles for sale: http://www.amw.com.pl/zos_catalog.php?cZosPath=1
Cheers
3ELT
fatb0y60
07-29-2005, 05:54
http://www.courtesyaircraft.com/inventory%20table.htm
there used to be a pilatus PC-9 ( texan 2 in USA ) on there and now its not. I had dreams of one day winning $500,000 and buying it!
Redstormer
03-06-2006, 16:08
Joint Strike Fighter programme affected by:
http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/jdi/jdi060228_1_n.shtml
I wouldn’t call the Gripen an advanced aircraft… its still 4th generation and in one on one BVR fight it doesn’t have any chance with Raptor, at close range raptor with its Aim-9X is better too. So is the Typhoon with Iris-T. Well if it comes to missiles all US aircraft would be better at close range now, since Gripen uses only AIM-9L, and its still long way for him to get Iris-T.
I have seen footage of Gripens carrying IRIS-T Missiles.
liquid_rockface
03-06-2006, 17:31
3rdelt, how do you actually go about buying those armoured vehicles? I was thinking of adding a couple of those warships to my garage at home but I don't see any prices or contact numbers! :jester:
oh btw...shhhh , take a peek ;)
http://saab-gripen.masdf.com/pic/irist.jpg
Flip
Is the lower missile the meteor?
Cougar12dk
03-06-2006, 18:26
It sure looks like it. I think it's just a mock Meteor, because:
Excerpt from http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/gripen/
Later versions of the aircraft for Sweden will be armed with the short-range Diehl BGT Defence IRIS-T air-to-air missile and the MBDA Meteor Beyond Visual Range (BVR) air-to-air missile. Deliveries of IRIS-T began in December 2005. Meteor is due to enter service in 2010.
3rdelt, how do you actually go about buying those armoured vehicles? I was thinking of adding a couple of those warships to my garage at home but I don't see any prices or contact numbers! :jester:
"The licensed equipment which has a combat meaning can only be sold to local or foreigner customers which are entitled, posses licenses for special transactions. Principles and possibilities of turnover of these equipment are regulated by:
* the act of Juny 22nd 2001 on executing the economic activity in terms of producing and turnover of explosive materials, weapon, ammunition, products and technology of a military or police meaning (Journal of Law, No.67, item 679);
* The ordinance of the Council of Ministers of December 3rd 2001 regarding kind of weapon and ammunition, product and technology of a military or police meaning on which producing and turnover a licence is required (Journal of Law, No.145, item 1625).
Sale of the licenced equipment is realized directly by the Special Transaction Team of the Military Property Agency and proceeds in a bid form or in a way of negotiation. Annoucement about organized sale is placed in daily press of a local coverage and in fortnightly “PRZETARGI” and in internet on the webside www.amw.com.pl
Receiving of the bought equipment follows on the date definied each time by the bid organizer after an earlier payment of the full price increased over sale tax in height regulatory definied."
oh btw...shhhh , take a peek ;)
http://saab-gripen.masdf.com/pic/irist.jpg
Flip
The IRIS-T in the photo there is a CATM (Captive Air Training Missile) with no motor and no warhead as evidenced by the two blue stripes painted on it. The Meteor is a dummy shape probably hung to check the fit of the proposed missile or as a display for future customers.
this is not the picture i originally saw of the Gripen carrying the missile, although i must say that i didnt see the blue stripes on the original picture. I know what the red, yellow and blue stands for..i think
Flip
A live round will normally have Yellow and Brown... IIRC, Brown is Live Rocket motor and Yellow is Live Warhead...
liquid_rockface
03-08-2006, 12:42
this is not the picture i originally saw of the Gripen carrying the missile, although i must say that i didnt see the blue stripes on the original picture. I know what the red, yellow and blue stands for..i think
Flip, you mean the flag of Romania of course, don't you? :wink2:
rofl, youre funny :thumb:
Redstormer
03-08-2006, 14:42
Flip, you mean the flag of Romania of course, don't you? :wink2:
There was some members of the Romanian embassy invited to the White house after the Romanian revolution. In such occations presents are given from state to state. In this case the Romanians gave a few presents and the US administration excepted those gifts.
A few weeks after the visit the Romanian government got a "thank you note" from the White House. There was also mentioned "thank you for the poncho.....". Some civil servants in Romania were amazed about that. Was one of the presents a poncho? They started a inquiry for that specific present.
They found out it was not a poncho, it was the Romanian flag with the communits symbol cut out of it.
Not a joke!!
there is red too
I think you are refering to the brown stripe for the rocket motor as it is actually a reddish brown color.
Here is a list of the colors and their significance.
Yellow - Identifies high explosives, Indicates the presence of explosive, either sufficient to cause the ammunition to function as a high explosive or is particularly hazardous to the user
Brown - Identifies rocket motors or indicates the presence of explosive, either sufficient to cause the ammunition to function as a low explosive or is particularly hazardous to the user
Gray - Identifies ammunition that contains irritant or toxic agents when used as an overall body color, except for underwater ordnance. Gray with red bands indicates the ammunition contains an irritant (harassing) agent. Gray with dark green bands indicates the ammunition contains a toxic agent.
Black - Identifies armor-defeating ammunition except on underwater ordnance.
Silver/aluminum - Identifies countermeasures ammunition.
Light green - Identifies smoke or marker ammunition.
Light red - Identifies incendiary ammunition or indicates the presence of highly flammable material.
White - Identifies illuminating ammunition or ammunition producing a colored light except for underwater ordnance, guided missiles and rocket motors.
Blue/Light blue - Identifies ammunition used for training or firing practice.
Orange - Identifies ammunition used for tracking or recovery.
Bronze - Identifies dummy/drill/inert ammunition used for handling and loading training.
Nonsignificant Colors Olive drab and more recently including Light Gray on Mk-80 series bombs, are a base color for all ammunition items.
Black - For lettering
White - For lettering and for guided missiles and rocket motors.
The following colors, when applied as stated, have no identification color coding significance: The colors gray, orange, black, white, brick red, or green on underwater ordnance, such as mines and torpedoes, and the color white on guided missiles or rockets. The colors black and white, when used for lettering. The color white when used in diamond-shaped figures on ammunition.
thanks, very interesting read! :thumb:
Flip
I think order number 1 on the F-22's was a much better idea, all things considerd.
Take for example exhibit A.
http://www.enemyforces.com/aircraft/su37.htm
Check that link out. Along the bottom you'll see a diagram illustrating a few things this monster can do. Lets even assume a level of public relations bs in there. That's STILL nuts! That thing would be, in the hands of a ROOKIE pilot, nearly invincible after a merge. With any training at all, a dogfight could happen at 6 to 1 odds and I'd still put heavy money on the 37.
"But Lohne! The F-22 has a vastly improved aqusiation-attack-destroy range thanks to it's new radar, stealth, and speed charecterisitcs! The argument of an F-22 not being as succsesful as another soon to be released fighter is moot, since all that training and tech adds up to a merge being a choice no Raptor pilot is going to give an opponent!"
Aight. One at a time.
First, range. How many factors contribute to Murphey getting the best of BVR? Rules of Engagment forcing you to visually id a target? So much for AMRAAMs being useful at 5 miles. My personal hopes and prayers lie with the claims it can ID a target at 160 miles to a 98% certainty...those of you that keep up with my posts allready know my firm and fresh distaste of current gen radars and reliance on AWACS.
Second, speed. You'll notice that "super" agility airframe IS a two pumper. Whatever speed it can maintain won't be a shoddy one. So there you have the agility that's usually assumed with a single engine airframe, like the Falcon, AND the speed of an Eagle.
Third, detection. Lets say ALL of the above is shoved off the table. That this new fighter is a God at dogfights, but thanks to the F-22, dogfights are a thing of the past. (anyone buying this?)
To THOSE, I say, Exhibit B
http://www.enemyforces.com/aircraft/s37.htm
Oh yeah. Give THAT little Gem a read.
Okay, so now we're looking at the start of a program just completed in the states, an air superiority fighter that just happens to have enhanced manuverability and, oh yeah, stealthy low observable charecteristics.
Not enough for you? Aight.
The latest update of the AA-10 Alamo, the R-27EM, has an approaching target range of just under 170km/105miles.
Likewise, the R-73MS, or A-11 Archer, an INFRARED GUIDED SHORT RANGE MISSLE, has a RECEEDING target range of 20km/10miles.
Finally, the newest radar guided medium range missle, the R-77/AA-12 Adder, can hit a target approaching it at just under 150km/95miles.
Okay. So you have one fighter that can out manuver a humming bird. And now you have another that apperntly shares a bit of charecteristics with the F-22, allready loaded with a suite of AA missles that, frankly, kind of shame ours. Never mind that US Aircraft dont even HAVE a long range AA missle anymore, R.I.P. Aim-54.
It's worth noting this is ALL Fourth generation stuff, by the way. All this, even though all of these have upgrades dating as late as the early 90's, are designed for the 4th-geners like the Mig-29 and the Su-27.
So uh...yeah. In review. Lets build a few of those F-22's anyway. we'll need them to let the F-35's continue the role of Close Air Support, since they're somehow replacing the Thunderbolts.:doh:
Playloud
03-25-2006, 01:08
So uh...yeah. In review. Lets build a few of those F-22's anyway. we'll need them to let the F-35's continue the role of Close Air Support, since they're somehow replacing the Thunderbolts.:doh: I just don't see this happening. I mean, it's going to happen, because the brass will make it happen, but I sure hope the Warthogs are the "last" planes to be replaced, and not the first.
One huge resounding Ditto here, man. Allready been decided though. In true Air Force fashion, they kick out the ones that work. Now the F-35 will have to take up THAT role as well. It's just like the Ardvark. Man what a plane...poof. Retired.
In theory, I wonder what would happen if you designed a ship just for one other role? CAP requirments gave the Warthog a VERY distinct role, but it does it like no one else. The Eagle, and now the F-22, are purpose built to blow bogeys out of the sky, and man..do they do it well. What would happen if you, for say, created a whole plane for SEAD, for example?
Nah, I dont want them to do it...just be a nice head game to see what they can come up with.
Spyder-F16
03-25-2006, 01:44
So uh...yeah. In review. Lets build a few of those F-22's anyway. we'll need them to let the F-35's continue the role of Close Air Support, since they're somehow replacing the Thunderbolts.:doh:
The A-10 is slated to recieve upgrade to C model and stay in service until 2028.
Playloud
03-25-2006, 02:11
The A-10 is slated to recieve upgrade to C model and stay in service until 2028. :firework:
Richard_H
03-25-2006, 10:55
F22 vs Typhoon, Rafale and Su-37 yeah that'd be a fair fight :wink2: Maybe we could even it up a bit more by letting the other three jets win if they could just get the Raptor on the radar screen before they died.
the f22 would obviously need to have a radar beacon or something similar installed. so that the "match" would be even. kinda like how the ground control tracks the f117 during training flights
Making a plane stealth with electronics? IMHO is that an indication for an enemy when there are electronic countermeasures in a specific area, that in that specific area there is an enemy aircraft.
In short: electronic countermessures do not only hide but they also give an enemy an indication there is something happening.
A precision about SPECTRA and "active cancelation", I've read an article where a Thales engineer,Pierre-Yves Chaltiel, was interviewed, he said: "SPECTRA uses stealth jamming modes which have not only saturation effects, but make the plane stealth...Existing very specific technics to obtain a low observable signature".
At the beginning of 2002, Thales and MBDA revelated that they worked on an active cancellation technology for cruise missiles and had tested it on a little drone, utilising combination of passive and active technics to manage the radar signature. This revelation make more possible a eventual addition of this system into the SPECTRA Electronic War Manager. the Active cancellation is a technic, when the plane is illuminated, transmitting a signal which is imitating the echo that the radar will receive but with semi-wave shifting to avoid any echo reception of the radar. The adavantage of the system is a low power comsuption, and the plane doesn't let any indication of its presence, but it need a very quick information traitement, and a bad execution make the plane visble to radar.
The complexity of the system explain the lot of money spent is the SPECTRA program estimated at 1Billion €( more than 1Billion $).
The radar Frequency system is coupled with Laser Warning receiver, an optical missile alert system and a complete system of releasable counter measures.
BHawthorne
03-25-2006, 17:18
Going get all the bug,s out of the f22 the air force said the f22 has cumpter problem,s they all said the JFS is to heavy. Im hopingthat thay can,t fix them because ihated to see the F16 and F15 and A10 mothball Iknow that we spent big buck on them. Air show,s won,t be the same . Duncan Harrington FALCON 1377 Thank,s :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns:
Google toolbar spellcheck and the message edit button should be 2 of your new friends. :wink2:
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