Landing the F16

[Tulkas]

This is my first post so... hi everybody and thanks to Haole for this interesting forum. I have a lot of doubts about flying a real fighter but it´s pretty difficult to get a jet to find them out by myself.

So, my question is: I´ve read the F16 is a difficult plane to land, in fact more difficult than older ones as F4 or A8... is this so? why? what flying features make it harder to land?

Thank you...

Tulkas

[Stuntie]

Never landed either for real so Haole will no doubt correct me.

From what I've read the F-4 seemed to be very good on the glideslope - due to the huge wing and canted engines helping to keep it stable, and good engine response (or lack of erratic response) at landing speed. Being desgned for carriers being able to hit the deck as slow and safe as possible was a high priority. It also has a beefy undercarriage giving more leeway for hard landings.

The F-16 has a smaller wing by comparison so less effective low speed lift.
I.e. the F-4 has loads of lift to play with so minor fluctations in the amount of lift do not cause as much of a attitude change as they would with the smaller F-16 wing.
The F-15 will be easier to land as well because of the extra lift from its huge wings.
Small wings give better manoverability (less air resistance in a roll) but higher landing speeds
The F-16 Engine is more responsive, especially given the light weight of the F-16, good for acceleration but not quite so good for keeping it slow and steady (like trying to do slow speeds on a sports bike compared to a cruiser, you need to be careful not to let the speed creep up).
However airforce runways tend to be a little longer than your average carrier deck, so a higher landing speed is not a problem.
Also you can flare rather than crash into deck as on carriers to kill speed and descent rate.

[Spyder-F16]

The F-16 does not have a lifting body design like the F-15. Also the F-16's faster landing speeds do make it so you have to have a perfect flare, because if you mess it up, you're hitting the runway at a higher speed and it will snap off the landing gears.


Once you get the hang of it, the F-16 becomes easier to land.

By far though, the Harrier in Falcon 4 is hardest to land since the slow speed for landing makes it jittery.

[Col. Ter Beek]

Also the F-16's faster landing speeds do make it so you have to have a perfect flare, because if you mess it up, you're hitting the runway at a higher speed and it will snap off the landing gears.


Flaring is not necessary to put the aircraft down safely. I intercept a 2.5 degree glidescope and hit the tarmac at speeds between 140-160, dependant on the weight of the aircraft (stores/ fuel).

Also watching your speed is not necessary, I fly my approach using the throttle to intercept the correct glidescope and touch down at the right AOA (mostly 12-13 degrees).

Regards,
Goose

[Seafury]

When is the point you transition from a nose down attitude to an attitude gving an AoA of 12-13 degrees?

Wouldn't that point be concidered the flare? Or do you fly the complete approach at your landing AoA?

[Col. Ter Beek]

When is the point you transition from a nose down attitude to an attitude gving an AoA of 12-13 degrees?

Wouldn't that point be concidered the flare? Or do you fly the complete approach at your landing AoA?

Perhaps my wording was a bit unclear... :wink2: I understand a flare to be a maneuver to reduce your airspeed by setting throttle at idle and pulling the FPM along the centerline of the runway, effectively reducing your lift and letting the Viper set down gently.

I take a different approach. Dependant on the airspeed I fly my approach between 140-160kts. if one keeps a glide scope of 2.5 degrees the AOA angle solves itself, letting you touchdown between 12-13 AOA, no transitioning involved. More like a controlled crash.

Regards,
Goose

[BelgianTiger_4]

We are guessing here a little bit whitout getting the exact facts why the F-16 MIGHT be more difficult to land. There are two categories with their pro's and contra's.

First Aerodynamic wise:

The F-16 is a unstabile plane. Without his FBW (Fly By wire) it is almost undouable to fly so analog input only would be resulting in crash. Sometimes we forget that the F-16 is one of the first planes using FBW. At low speeds, it is more difficult to control an aircraft through the air. You have wind issues, turbulence and so on. This affect the flight and also the FBW system. This means that the system is less effective in a stabile low speed flight envelope (the position change of flaps, slats, elevators, rudder and ailerons are not so effective at that point, this means larger position change and a more difficulty to make the plane stabile enough).

Second mechanical wise:

The F-16 its landing gear is not built for carrier landings, so a smack on the ground results in a hell of a week for the ground crew. This is also pariculary why the F-16 can't operate on highways, routes and so on like the Sweden fighters can. (also FOD issues and so on).

The flare of the A/C is not so exact as you might think, you have a range where you can land your A/C without any prob. You only need to consider 2 things. Too high AOA and you will smack the plane his ass on the ground, no joy for your career. Second, to low AOA. You come in to hard and you will damage your landing gear. This is logic. Cause low AOA angles only exists when you fly slow relative to the wind. So when you come in faster, your AOA will decrease, when you go slower, your AOA angle will increase. You have to find a middle way without smacking the plane his ass nor the gear on the runway. This is at a given airspeed range.

Now there is a little trick here. If you come in too fast, you can play with your desend rate. if that is almost 0, you can land at AOA around 5° and on. But this is more complex as I will describe here. If you land at high speed, low desend rate, the force on your wheels vericaly, is minimum while the horizontal force on the gear will increase (you will reach other limits, not verticaly as mentioned above, but horizontaly) and the wheel will tutch the ground much faster. Friction will occure and damage can occure.

This is a answer on your question technical wise.

Greetings

[Tulkas]

Very interesting answers, learning a lot. Thanks everybody.

Un saludo

Tulkas

[grab]

We are guessing here a little bit whitout getting the exact facts why the F-16 MIGHT be more difficult to land. There are two categories with their pro's and contra's.

First Aerodynamic wise:

The F-16 is a unstabile plane. Without his FBW (Fly By wire) it is almost undouable to fly so analog input only would be resulting in crash. Sometimes we forget that the F-16 is one of the first planes using FBW. At low speeds, it is more difficult to control an aircraft through the air. You have wind issues, turbulence and so on. This affect the flight and also the FBW system. This means that the system is less effective in a stabile low speed flight envelope (the position change of flaps, slats, elevators, rudder and ailerons are not so effective at that point, this means larger position change and a more difficulty to make the plane stabile enough).

Second mechanical wise:

The F-16 its landing gear is not built for carrier landings, so a smack on the ground results in a hell of a week for the ground crew. This is also pariculary why the F-16 can't operate on highways, routes and so on like the Sweden fighters can. (also FOD issues and so on).

The flare of the A/C is not so exact as you might think, you have a range where you can land your A/C without any prob. You only need to consider 2 things. Too high AOA and you will smack the plane his ass on the ground, no joy for your career. Second, to low AOA. You come in to hard and you will damage your landing gear. This is logic. Cause low AOA angles only exists when you fly slow relative to the wind. So when you come in faster, your AOA will decrease, when you go slower, your AOA angle will increase. You have to find a middle way without smacking the plane his ass nor the gear on the runway. This is at a given airspeed range.

Now there is a little trick here. If you come in too fast, you can play with your desend rate. if that is almost 0, you can land at AOA around 5° and on. But this is more complex as I will describe here. If you land at high speed, low desend rate, the force on your wheels vericaly, is minimum while the horizontal force on the gear will increase (you will reach other limits, not verticaly as mentioned above, but horizontaly) and the wheel will tutch the ground much faster. Friction will occure and damage can occure.

This is a answer on your question technical wise.

Greetings Great post BT4,
I personally in 8 years have never seen a Viper land so hard that it caused any sort of gear problem, a testament to our pilots training, however......:) Pilots do scrape the speedbrakes now and again, you will notice this on most of the F-16's in the USAF inventory, a handfull of times I have seen a solid 6 inches taken off the speedbrakes requiring a change. It is normal for a pilot taking your jet to initial the scrapes on the boards to prove that after landing he was not the one to scrape 'em which would cost him a case of beer to the Crew Chief of the jet, hehe, I like beer. Grab

[Haole]

Landing an F-16 isnt really hard, but landing one smoothly and consistently in the same part of the runway can be. The F-16 does not want to land and you have fly it on to the runway. Too hard to explain in writing though.
As far as flaring goes...most fighters fly down final at a high AOA as it is, so the flare is very small compared to other planes such as a T-37 for instance. It flies a nose low attitude and then does a "round out" in to the flare just before touch down. So therefore a flare in the T-37 requires a lot of aft stick pressure prior to touch down, and a T-38 requires hardly any at all. Actually you can fly a T-38 down to the runway and not even attempt to flare and you will land just fine. Not as smooth as normal, but you'll land safely. Hope this made since!
In short...you fly the apprach in an F-16 at pretty much the same AOA as you land it in!