Mission starting points

[SelfDefense]

If I remember correctly, when you start a mission in F4, you had the option of starting at the end of the runway and taking off immeditely or at the end of the taxiway where you had to taxi over to the runway. Earlier, there was discussion about having the option in FO to start at an even earlier point where you could do a walk-around of the plane before taxiing. These are all good points to start a mission during a campaign but for flying single missions (no campaign) it would be nice to also have the option of being able to start the mission at the Ingress Point or slightly earlier. I don't always want to have to take-off and fly for hours to do a long-distance OCA or Alpha Strike. Granted, they are only sim hours and can be compressed but it still takes much effort. Especially with a mid-air refueling point on the way.

If we had an Ingress Point option, you can start at maybe 10 or 15 miles ahead of the IP to give you enough time to set up your avionics for ground pounding or whatever, do the deed, and fly home. Or maybe even escape out of the mission after the attack to skip the flight home and landing (while still keeping your bombing data). I understand that the mission editor would allow you to set up the mission parameters like this but I never set up my own missions. Takes too much time. I would rather have the option of an IP starting point and quick exit for canned missions, just in case I don't have the time/ambition to do a long mission.

What do you think?

SD

[Sehm]

I think it is a personal preference. I actually like to do a ramp start, takeoff and do a mid-air refuel underway to the objective. I think it is a challenge, and if it's the way it's done in real life, I want to do it that way also. Indeed it should be an option though. :thumbsup:

Cheers :drink:

[Pacman]

You raise an interresting point here and with single missions this is very workable.

In a campaign however this might get hard as the situation is fluid and enemy fighter, bombers,....might show up even before you are at your IP.

Although for time compression we might be able to find a solution that, when certain types of enemy units get within a certain distance of your aircraft or flight, the sim would slow down to normal.

Any more thoughts on this issue???

[Sehm]

I agree with you Pacman. Never thought about the dynamic campaign thing :roll:
But you've found the solution :thumbsup:

Cheers for you Pacman :drink:

[Antler]

Although for time compression we might be able to find a solution that, when certain types of enemy units get within a certain distance of your aircraft or flight, the sim would slow down to normal.
I personally love that idea, Pacman. It's kinda like the autopilot from the Wing Commander series, but you still get to fly it. I can imagine it to be brialliant when I don't have that much time to fly the full time of the mission. :thumbsup:

[SelfDefense]

Just to clarify...

I -do- like to fly a full, wheels-up to wheels-down mission. I think that if you are flying a mission in a dynamic campaign, this is the way to go. Campaign missions should always start from the tarmac. IMO

I just thought that sometimes I like to fly a non-campaign mission (single mission) and I don't want to spend hours en route. Just get me close, let me pound some ground and be done with it. Sometimes, I would like to fly home and land but sometimes I don't even have time for that. If I have to escape out of a mission due to time constraints, you should have the option of quitting totally (to desktop, even) or quit while keeping attack data (so I can see what I hit, -if- I hit). And don't forget the option to quit and restart the mission, if that is desired.

SD

[Pacman]

I just had a conversation with our main coder and the idea's we brought up are workable.
He will deal with the issue the moment he get's to it and will keep our idea's in mind when he starts working on that part of the simulation.

Good teamwork gentlemen :thumbsup:

[16 162 Raven]

I have a B-17 sim i lilke to fly and it has a time fast forward but when your close to an enemy it slows down so you can fight. mscfs does the same thing. :drink:

[Buckshot]

Thinking about this, isn't what you want more like the instant action module that Falcon has?

[jhook]

Gentelmen,
I think jumping from one point to the next "instantly" could defeat some of the mission "suprises" the dynamic campain generator could use. :| Still, a single TE would have to have some kind of "jump" system in it as long flights could be monotinus! :? During a war time campain, flight ops should be conducted within, or around 300 nm. of an air base to any "frount line" position as this will provide the best base defense, and the closest ingress approach for the campain, (even though air bases can be thousands of miles apart from the frount lines).
As I have been posting here for some time now, most of you know how I feel about realizim. Real pilots go through hours of "straight, level, auto pilot and quite boring" sorties before they get to the fun stuff. That's a part of fighter pilot life! 8)

[Pacman]

No worries jhook, our main coder will look into it to program it as an option.
If you don't want to use it just use the RL autopilot functions :thumbsup:

[Sehm]

Wow, this sounds good. I'm glad we (the community) has some influence to the devs :D
Great work :thumbsup: :drink:

[Vlerkies]

Yeah, it is good to see a sim being developed where the community have a opportunity to say what goes in and what doesn't :thumbsup:

:drink: :drink:

:military:

~S~

[Pacman]

This is a very clear case, some others might not make it in the initial release and make it further down the road, some might get implemented partially, some might not even make it at all.

It is all about planning and making choices and priorities.

But the main concern is still making this sim as interresting for the community as possible.
Later on when the development kits are available people can make their own add-ons, so even more community influence goes in the sim.

Best regards,

[SelfDefense]

Thinking about this, isn't what you want more like the instant action module that Falcon has?

It's been a while. Didn't INSTANT ACTION give you unlimited ammo (air and ground) and you just kept fighting waves of enemy fighters till you died? That would be fun for a quick fix or for dogfighting practice. I wouldn't call flying a single non-campaign mission INSTANT ACTION though. Most of the time, I want to have a set flight plan and limited ammo/fuel instead of just fighting waves of enemies thrown at me. That's not a bad idea though. That might be fun for some. Just not for me.

So FO could work like this...

INSTANT ACTION (ARCADE ACTION)
- unlimited fuel/ammo of all types (A-A & A-G)
- unlimited waves of incoming enemy fighters of increasing ability
- selecting level of difficulty would determine starting level of enemy AI, steadily increasing from there with every wave of enemies
- plenty of stationary ground enemies/objects in close proximity
- just fly till you die
- scored by hits/kills vs ammo used

SINGLE MISSION
- user is prompted to pick Air-Air or Air-Ground
- randomly generated A-A or A-G mission
- user specified weapon loadout or use default loadout
- option of INGRESS POINT starting location
- option of quitting to desktop, quitting while saving attack data, quit and restart mission

CAMPAIGN MISSION
- speaks for itself. As close to real life as possible.
- quitting mission is same as ejecting for no reason. court martial.
- always starts from tarmac


suggestions???

SD

:thumbsup:

[Pacman]

Hehe you forgot the dogfight module :wink:
Making your own missions (not only generated),
and lots more :mrgreen:

[SelfDefense]

Hehe you forgot the dogfight module

Wouldn't that be ARCADE ACTION? Instant dogfights against waves of enemies?


Making your own missions (not only generated)

Yup. SINGLE MISSION should allow randomly generated missions or the ability to load a saved mission.


and lots more :mrgreen:

ooooo. You're getting me all hot and bothered! :mrgreen: :wink:

SD

[Antler]

CAMPAIGN MISSION
- speaks for itself. As close to real life as possible.
- quitting mission is same as ejecting for no reason. court martial.
- always starts from tarmac

I don't agree with quitting mission is same as ejecting for no reason. court martial.. I remember 4D Sports Boxing did something like that - quitting before a match is decided counts as throwing in the towel. It was very annoying when either the game crashed, or something unexpected came up and I had to quit. Maybe instead, you have the option of re-doing the mission when you next enter campaign mode. If you choose to skip the mission, then it's counted as ejecting for no reason.

[IxianMace]

Why not just have the option to save the mission in progress, then return to it later (so you can pick up where you left off, in midflight). Or would this be too unrealistic?

[FlyBoy01]

IxianMace,
That all depends on if you are married or have kids. The option to stop and come back to finish is one that I would like to see. It would surely cut down on "Hang on Honey, I 've GOT to take out this Sam site before I take out the trash (feed the kid, pick up your mother etc...) :lol:

[Bladehawk]

Gentelmen,
I think jumping from one point to the next "instantly" could defeat some of the mission "suprises" the dynamic campain generator could use. :| Still, a single TE would have to have some kind of "jump" system in it as long flights could be monotinus! :? During a war time campain, flight ops should be conducted within, or around 300 nm. of an air base to any "frount line" position as this will provide the best base defense, and the closest ingress approach for the campain, (even though air bases can be thousands of miles apart from the frount lines).
As I have been posting here for some time now, most of you know how I feel about realizim. Real pilots go through hours of "straight, level, auto pilot and quite boring" sorties before they get to the fun stuff. That's a part of fighter pilot life! 8)

BINGO !!! THATS MY MAN ... I don´t mind if other want to give "warp jumps"
I Say give the ones that want REALISM the chance to get it.

A good way to "track" those jumpers (because they should have that option" was for the simulator to :
1º not count to the time of flight during jump time :mrgreen:
2º there should be some kind of penalty in the realism factor
i.e A pilot starts with 100% realism in is logbook. during a mission he dicides to give a "jump" to the next steerpoint... Fine the realism drops to 95% and the time to this steerpoin isn´t counted in the flight hours.

NOW... WHO WANTS TO JUMP ???? :mrgreen:

[16 263 HeartAttack]

Speaking for myself, I would like to see (read ) have the ability to build my own missions. ala' Falcon. I really have no use for "Instant Action" type missions. I like the thinking that should go into any good mission, I have a huge hatred of "canned" missions that have no purpose. Training missions with a good stated objective and an accompanying lesson would go a long way. The Wings and Squadrons out there would get alot of benefit.

HeartAttack out.

[Antler]

BINGO !!! THATS MY MAN ... I don´t mind if other want to give "warp jumps"
I Say give the ones that want REALISM the chance to get it.

A good way to "track" those jumpers (because they should have that option" was for the simulator to :
1º not count to the time of flight during jump time :mrgreen:
2º there should be some kind of penalty in the realism factor
i.e A pilot starts with 100% realism in is logbook. during a mission he dicides to give a "jump" to the next steerpoint... Fine the realism drops to 95% and the time to this steerpoin isn´t counted in the flight hours.

NOW... WHO WANTS TO JUMP ???? :mrgreen:

I know you guys really love the realism thing (I've been here long enough to know that), and I do too. I would fly most of the time without time compression. I think that the main point being made here is that it could be made available to use if need be. Imagine this situation: you've just flown half a mission - you've flown out the to target area and performed a fairly tough bombing run. You're on your way back to your airbase, but then suddenly something comes up (in real life - not in the simulator). It might take a good few minutes more to get back to your airbase - so what do you do? Quit? Compress time?


Gentelmen,
I think jumping from one point to the next "instantly" could defeat some of the mission "suprises" the dynamic campain generator could use.

Not necessarily. The dynamic campain generator would still be doing it's thing. Time just moves a bit faster. Should a fighter wing come and ambush you, time would simply slow down so you could either deal with them or run (figuratively) like the wind (if your plane isn't fairing so well).

[Bladehawk]

I see your point Antler.

I think a "pause" key is better than a compress or jump key.
I know... I know... the pause key isn´t real too but if something happens in real live like you said (example... take a leak... :mrgreen: ) the bell door rings etc... I think its better to STOP and then RESUME than JUMP .
But I respect Your POV. :drink:

[Antler]

I know... I know... the pause key isn´t real too but if something happens in real live like you said (example... take a leak... :mrgreen: ) the bell door rings etc... I think its better to STOP and then RESUME than JUMP.

Well, as someone said (or rather wrote) somewhere, I suppose they could increase the realism by including a piddle pack in the FO box... :mrgreen:

:drink: :drink: :drink:

[Bladehawk]

:shock:

[Bladehawk]

Im counting on that !!! :mrgreen:

[Juggernaut]

Speaking for myself, I would like to see (read ) have the ability to build my own missions. ala' Falcon. I really have no use for "Instant Action" type missions. I like the thinking that should go into any good mission, I have a huge hatred of "canned" missions that have no purpose. Training missions with a good stated objective and an accompanying lesson would go a long way. The Wings and Squadrons out there would get alot of benefit.

HeartAttack out.

The goal is to let you build your own missions.

Read the following thread, and let me know if you have any suggestions:
http://www.fighterops.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=161

Thanks!
Juggernaut

[Vlerkies]

Great stuff Juggernaut
:thumbsup: