Israeli's List

[TBH]

Hello!
First of all, let me introduce my self. My name is Tomer Barak and I am one of the administrators in the Israeli Falcon's community (http://ilf-league.com)
We were reading some of your information stored in your site and we would like to thank you very much for making this game sound wonderful.
We have also read that in this specific project you will be able to listen to some community comments and act according to them. Therefore, we have prepared a list of things which we think they should be built in addition to all of the good things in Falcon 4 SP4 :

1 ) In Multiplayer, it will let you choose being a GIBS or a Pilot while having different cockpits according to your seat. In other words, there will be a possibility of 2 players in one airplane. ( in single player when you are GIBS, the AI will fly the airplane ).
2 ) In all of the cities you will be able to see houses and streets, so we will be able to do exact liquidations.
3 ) There will be a possibility that one airplane will lock with the by a laser on a target, and other airplanes will bombard her, so that his LGB will be locked on the laser of the other airplane ( it will include definitions of FLIR code in the ICP ).
4 ) Private cars which move accross the streets. Again, for making exact liquidations.
5 ) Choosing weather in the mission builder.
6 ) Realistic Inner Communication System like in real airplanes.
7 ) In case of an emergency landing, there will be sitting on the runway cables which will catch the emergency hook. In the end of the runway you will find a net which will catch the airplane in case of high speed landing.
8 ) An ATC which will be controlled by human, which will give him a possibility to occure in the time they happen and report it by a realistic communication to the planes on air.
9 ) A Linux edition of the game that will support running a dedicated servers.
10 ) Exercises on bombs and missiles with colors and damaged models.
11 ) Supported TV guided bombs like the "Popeye".
12 ) Possibility of modifying the game to keep this game alive for many years (source code...).
13 ) Availblity of the missile "Python 4", one of the best IR guided missiles in the world.
14 ) The control tower, which is being controlled by the AI, will be able to arrange airplanes to their landings properly, according to procedures and orders.
15 ) HMS system like the one in SP4.
16 ) It will be possible to talk with the infantry who is on the ground and to be updated about the position of the enemy and friendly planes.
17 ) Realistic IFF. This will make us able to know if the plane which we are locked on is friendly or hostile.
18 ) While asking AWACS about the type of the target, it will answer as soon as possible in order not to waste any critical time.
19 ) Support of a different joysticks (joysticks with forcefeedback...etc).
20 ) The ECM will be inner in the Israeli airplanes as in the real life.
21 ) A possibility of making different theaters. For example: Israeli Theatre like in "Falcon" and perhaps even using satellite pictures.
22 ) Realistic damaged models.
23 ) the distribution of the game in Israel and manual translation to Hebrew ( we are ready to translate all of the book for free, as long as it will be published).
24 ) A very detailed manual of the game.


I am also interested by joining the "BETA testers" in order to test and help you with the Israeli's weapons and airplanes models.
I am ready to help you in every case about the Israeli weapons, air bases in Israel and more...
Behind of me, a great community is standing, we only wait for instructions and getting a green light to start making amazing things in order to get A PERFECT game for all.


If you need that help you can find me in:
ICQ : 164755444
or by e-mail:
E mail : Tomer881@012.net.il
and I will be happy to help you in the everything by giving alot of help from us.


Tomer Barak,
http://www.ILF-LEAGUE.com

copies : main manager, FO forum.

[Predator[23rd]]

Very nice enhancements!

But I have some questions:
1- IFF is classified AFAIK. So, how can G2I make that realistic? Can you provide them with some info we don't have access to?
2- Moving arab cars and white palestinian houses may be a little bit to delicate in a GAME. I would say, let your pilots train on real targets and let us fly the whole thing a little more abstract. Or should they also include frazzled bodies, smoking cars, crying children and the other collateral damage stuff (like a few death innocent civilians or people how have lost their houses etc.) too? That would certainly add more realism to the game but I can easily live without that much realism and pain (not saying that I am ignoring it!).

Although some your other requests are quite though I would like to see them too. Especially the linux server! Stang was saying that the Falcon 4.0 MP code sucks big time and that the game must reach the level of BF1948 where ~80 players can be in the game without a problem. I am not seeing any chance that this will ever happen in a simulation like Falcon 4.0 (too many micro-simulations in here, while BF1984 in comparsion has nothing serious) but I am pretty sure that a dedicated server (on a lean OS) is a must have to improve the situation.

[Vlerkies]

I agree with you on the server idea. If they can code it to support linux servers or a lean os as you put it for a more stable mp experience with support for up to 80 pilots. That would be excellent :thumbsup:

:military:

~S~

[Bladehawk]

Point by Point...
1 ) In Multiplayer, it will let you choose being a GIBS or a Pilot while having different cockpits according to your seat. In other words, there will be a possibility of 2 players in one airplane. ( in single player when you are GIBS, the AI will fly the airplane ).
If the AI is like Falcon4 its better to have the "Send body bag option" :mrgreen:


2 ) In all of the cities you will be able to see houses and streets, so we will be able to do exact liquidations.
perfect, detailed cities, see the last Flight Simulator or Ace combat 4...

3 ) There will be a possibility that one airplane will lock with the by a laser on a target, and other airplanes will bombard her, so that his LGB will be locked on the laser of the other airplane ( it will include definitions of FLIR code in the ICP ).
:thumbsup:

4 ) Private cars which move accross the streets. Again, for making exact liquidations.
I think traffic is perfect and their should be info about the colateral damage, civilians killed, injured things that make a political pressure rise.
imagine in a bombing mission and our plane hits a hospital, The media, the public pressure this are factor that I hope to see in the campaign...

5 ) Choosing weather in the mission builder.
:thumbsup:

6 ) Realistic Inner Communication System like in real airplanes.
a Must !!

7 ) In case of an emergency landing, there will be sitting on the runway cables which will catch the emergency hook. In the end of the runway you will find a net which will catch the airplane in case of high speed landing.
:thumbsup:

8 ) An ATC which will be controlled by human, which will give him a possibility to occure in the time they happen and report it by a realistic communication to the planes on air.
real enough...

9 ) A Linux edition of the game that will support running a dedicated servers.
:shock: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

10 ) Exercises on bombs and missiles with colors and damaged models.
:thumbsup:

11 ) Supported TV guided bombs like the "Popeye".
:thumbsup:

12 ) Possibility of modifying the game to keep this game alive for many years (source code...).
To prevent the Falcon4 tragedy again... :roll:

13 ) Availblity of the missile "Python 4", one of the best IR guided missiles in the world.
As long as the Avionics in that plane suport the missile...

14 ) The control tower, which is being controlled by the AI, will be able to arrange airplanes to their landings properly, according to procedures and orders.
Yea ! the towers in Falcon4 suck.

15 ) HMS system like the one in SP4.
:thumbsup:

16 ) It will be possible to talk with the infantry who is on the ground and to be updated about the position of the enemy and friendly planes.
And please make the number of soldiers real, not the 8 or 9 ak47 lost in the ground representing a infantry battalion... :roll:

17 ) Realistic IFF. This will make us able to know if the plane which we are locked on is friendly or hostile.
This is the worst and more secret system that is always bad simulated.

18 ) While asking AWACS about the type of the target, it will answer as soon as possible in order not to waste any critical time.
More falcon4 faults...

19 ) Support of a different joysticks (joysticks with forcefeedback...etc).
:thumbsup:

20 ) The ECM will be inner in the Israeli airplanes as in the real life.

21 ) A possibility of making different theaters. For example: Israeli Theatre like in "Falcon" and perhaps even using satellite pictures.
Perhaps no... Must use satelite pictures, remember Hyper Real !!!

22 ) Realistic damaged models.
That even reflects in the appearence of the plane (holes from shrapnel...)

23 ) the distribution of the game in Israel and manual translation to Hebrew ( we are ready to translate all of the book for free, as long as it will be published).
I can live with that... :D

24 ) A very detailed manual of the game.
Super ! Hyper ! detailed :thumbsup:

[Recio]

I do not think a military flight sim should be oriented to "liquidations" or this kind of executions. Actually Israel is the only country that does it on populated areas so it is not a widely used procedure that warrant to take great lenghts to implement it.

Although I stronlgy support Israel fight against terrorism and its right to exists in peace and security, I am not very confortable with this "liquidation" procedures, that usually carry along large collateral effects (that is that not only the terrorist is killed, but children, women and non combatant personel)
If the terrorist cannot be eliminated by means of a sniper, a commando, a bomb (I liked very much the procedure using putting a bomb on a terrorist cellular phone and make him a call from death :-p )..... then it is better not to attack if that involve eliminating bystanders whoever they may be.
As I said I consider myself a strong supporter of Israel, I have friends there on the IDF, however I would appreciate not having a sim specifically oriented to this kind of missions.

Btw, What about having the new Israel F-16 version , the F-16I Peace Marble V Soufa?

http://www.defense-update.com/images/F-16I-1.jpg

[Vlerkies]

Well said Recio, but i have to be honest there has not been a single war to date where there wasn't collateral damage


:drink:


:military:


~S~

[Predator[23rd]]

that's right, every war has "collateral damage" and this is the reason why the murdered innocents are tagged with such a sissy lable. but the fact that innocent people are killed is no reason to provoke it by bad planing or overdosed weapon deployment.

I don't see any point in perfect replication of all possible kill methods in a game. The "simulation" already introduces too much abstraction that the terrible experience of a murder is washed away. Dont make it any worse by requesting such f'ucked up methods like "israel-type-liquidation".

Predator out!
Resistance is futile.

[Vlerkies]

once again, well said. and a nice job bypassing the language filter, though it will probably be removed :cry:

But anyway, the game already has enough realism so simulating collateral damege will be too much as well as very demanding on the system because it involves more code more graphics. Accidentally blowing up a building when you didn't line the pippers up is enough visual collateral damage in any flight sim

just my 2cents though
:drink:


:military:


~S~

[TBH]

Thanks for the great replays.
About the liquidations - why ignoring the thruth?
There is a movie about american's C130 that we can see how america olso makes liquidations.
In a war, liquidations are required. If they don't put cars because they don't want us to be "murders", this won't be true.
Have you seen the private houses in SP4? why haven't I seen any complaints about them? I can easily takeoff with couple MK84 and destroy their cities.
In the Israeli's community we have 3 - 5 squads. The operations that we make are not "hey dude, lets get up and kick some camel-riders ass's!" (don't take it for serious.. we respect the arabs!). Our operations requireds looks on the political effects, the currect ammunition (to NOT destroy the whole city), and more super realistic things that aren't belongs to what im trying to say. Because of that realism, If we want to make some liquidations, we think well about every single tiny thing.
BTW - out falcon community is pretty famous, because its about the IAF that everyone loves in Israel (you cant imagine how we respect the pilots), and because the high level of realism we makes the operations and trainings (we will make a show in the IAF museum in the 8th, April).

Finally, I think that private houses like in SP4 and moving cars (acctualy it can be like adding tanks to the game, just you'll choose "Volvo" :mrgreen: ) are required to simulate real wars and the make the political aspect more realistic.
(If I wanted to kill arabs for fun in the game, there are still those big houses [with funny man on thier top] in Falcon)

enough with political talking :thumbsup:

sry if I have spelling/grammer mistakes in this message, and thanks again for replying me.

[BlackAce]

Im looking forward to see a strategic simulation, where private houses and cars has no place (except for tall offices and large buildings) where damaged models (system damage is important than visual damage) or emergency landings (except for gear-up landing) are nothing but visual detail.

Come on guys, we have enough visually detailed games around as well as games with useless details, Anyways, I would only support features that could effect the outcome of combat, battle and war. (except for seeing ground operations prior to flight which is mutual to aviation)

[Bladehawk]

Im looking forward to see a strategic simulation, where private houses and cars has no place (except for tall offices and large buildings) where damaged models (system damage is important than visual damage) or emergency landings (except for gear-up landing) are nothing but visual detail.

Come on guys, we have enough visually detailed games around as well as games with useless details, Anyways, I would only support features that could effect the outcome of combat, battle and war. (except for seeing ground operations prior to flight which is mutual to aviation)


I agree with you , but if it also could be done I would like it don´t you ? :wink:

[Recio]

About the liquidations - why ignoring the thruth?
There is a movie about american's C130 that we can see how america olso makes liquidations.


Hello TBH, my post is not related about not eliminating terrorists but the way and consecuences it does it bring.
The AC-130 action video or the avalaible on same link Apache "liquidation" are good examples. Clean and neat, no kids or non combatants eliminated.
Of course I do favour the terrorist "elimination", he is my enemy as well as yours, but one thing is raiding a terrorist camp with extremely precise weapons and other much different is firing hellfires or mavericks inside a village. Numbers speak by themselves and any time live ammo is droped on populated areas innocents are killed (unless we consider kids, women or non combatants as terrorists)
This is my only concern. Terrorists are the ones that justify killing innocents in the name of their religion or ideas. This is our difference with them.
As I told you I feel great sympathy for Israel so do not take me as pro-terrorist in no way, the only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.

This is a game, we want to play and fly the most realistically as possible. You can nicely make missions bombing terrorist camps, but droping mavericks inside a town does no look sport to me.
Anyway I have nothing else to say against this as long as this kind of missions are not "required" on any stock game mission or campaing.
If you decide to model them to reproduce IDF operations, it is fine with me, as long as this is not a required step for rest of player to progress on "career".

Ending this, this show your comunity is going to make on IAF museum sounds really interesting. Would you please keep us posted about it?
It is very nice to see how our virtual activity merges with the real thing.
The IAF museum is among the ones I must surely visist one day.
Cheers!

[TBH]

Ok, you are so right about not making those missions required.
AND - in the jeneva rules of war it says that if terrorist is inside a house, and we destroying that house - the fault for the innocents that will get hurt or die is on the terrorist.
they are staying in houses in big cities and in those houses they planning those murders and making bombs. so, what would you want us to do? let them make bombs and do what ever they want because they are hiding in the innocents houses? those people must be killed.
lets take yasin's example. I won't explain how terrorist he was.. but he was god damn of a murder.
We could kill him many times with many bombs etc. The reason it took us so much time is that the apaches waited in the air alot of time and just waited that yasin's car will be as much isolated as it can. only then they quickly shot 3 missales and killed (I think) only 2 innocents (among with his son and bodyguards.. i dont think they called innocents :mrgreen: )
well listen, unless you really lives there and see the things as they are and not how they look in CNN, you won't really understand... but just small things to think about - imagine america was on fire like Israel (btw - 10 terrorist are being caught before they explode every day) and the people that were making those bombs were inside big cities in big houses surrounded by innocents and happy for that..
I rest my case :thumbsup:
lets play comuter games and cut this negative talking :)
about the museum - we will performe there a mission of attacking bridges in syria. as the people will sat, the room will be darked, and then sirena will be sounded.. and it will be writen something like "syria starts to move toward israel with all her army" etc.. and then me and 3 people will do the mission with music sounded in the background and someone is explaining what the mission is etc.. the bridges will be bombarded with couple MK84 and in the way back, couple of MIG 23s will fight us (with only rear aspect missiles, AI rookie. to make sure we won't scrue up..).
we made the timing perfect and checked with people that doesn't understand all this subject how they like the script.
our community visited IAF air-bases and made a LAN party (with RL pilots giving us review) etc.. we pretty developed :)

[BlackAce]

I agree with you , but if it also could be done I would like it don´t you ? :wink:

if it costs additional CPU work, I don't :( graphic detail could be reduced but code based work can not be disabled or will effect the multiplayer gaming....

[Allen]

TBH said: " 4 ) Private cars which move across the streets. Again, for making exact liquidations."

Jane's WW2 had this feature. In fact, if a car were strafed, the occupants jumped out and ran. Then, they could be strafed individually. Most simmers posting at that time thought it added greatly to immersion when making ground attacks -- I cannot remember any complaints that I read. I would expect such a feature in in the "definitive" sim (FighterOps). Also, some sims have modeled collateral damage to buildings etcetera based on bomb blast radius; so, I would also expect that in the most complete simulation.

There was a great 3d party add-in to Combat Flight Simulator 2 which (among many-many things) featured individual soldiers who would shoot at you with their rifles -- a number of them could be a significant factor when flying low. Of course, you could shoot back and kill them (thus silencing their guns) -- they screamed when they died. In FighterOps, the soldiers carrying shoulder mounted SAM could be modeled with this detail -- or all soldiers for that matter -- in the first Iraq war, scores of soldiers with guns stood at the ends of runways at night and somewhat effectively guarded the runways from UK planes coming in to drop anti-runway bombs (hit a couple and forced them to fly higher, as I remember). Of course, an unarmed soldier could be considered a civilian in some settings.

In my case, politics has nothing to do with it -- its just a reality/immersion thing. If politics is a factor, then the better the horrors of war are modeled, the more simmers will learn war is not a good thing, I think. Just an opinion.

[spyro23]

I agree with Recio
We should obey political correctness . Droping nuke bombs on cities, shooting to civilian cars and houses or somthing like that is not a good idea. We soldiers (virtual to) should protect civilian people!
Can you imagine what can happend when some jurnalist deal with this kind of sim.

[Straight Razor]

Apparently, this guy that is speaking about liquidations and assasinations has no understanding of ethics and morals, two things that modern societies are based on. It is really outrageous when you hear someone so vehemently justifying the death of children and infants for the purpose of assasinating an enemy.

Please producers, try to keep this sim as far as possible from political opinions, specially if it is so sick as the opinion promoted by this topic poster.