How much realism we will have?

[Recio]

First at all let me congratulate and thank you you for taking this step ahead and embarking on this enterprise of creating a new flight sim.

I am a profesional helicopter pilot and I do not use to "play" with PC flight sims very often with the very exception of Falcon. This sim although old but with all comunnity mods and patches have achieved a realism and complexity level unparallel on general public sims.

I am also among the ones who bought Lock -On the very day it was released, but unfortunately I have it stored on a box. The game have great graphics but it does not even match the level of Falcon on systems, realism and complexity. It is kind of "shooter" game comapred with Falcon.

I know that doing a sim for hardcore players scares the publishers and developers because the "market segment" is smaller that the whole "flight sim comunity". However we already have LOMAC an most people is still flying Falcon.

Falcon it is an old game that cannot be stretched much more.
I would love to hear from developers that they aim for a similar realism and complexity levels as Falcon + SP4 have (surely scalable so new players can define the complexity level without need to have a Combat Ready qualification) :wink: .
I like it realistic and complex. If this is the case I want to make my pre order here and today.

[jhook]

Greetings Recio, and welcome to Fighter Ops forums. Realisim is the hole point of this project! It will be a "High Fidelity" flight sim! :thumbsup:

[Zolos]

If you peg the G-meter somebody from the software developer should come to your house to tell you that your airframe folded on you, then hit you in the head with a baseball bat. :drink:

Seriously though, I'm hoping for scaleable difficulty from "realistic" ala F4 all the way down to "arcade" settings. There is something to be said for just strapping in and shooting bandits.

[Vlerkies]

If they do implement the scalability on difficulty settings, it would be great, as i know quite a few newbies over here who want a hardcore sim with hyper realism, but also needs the ability to scale it down so that they can learn in steps :drink:

:military:

~S~

[jhook]

The "g-meter" as you say, gives us hard core sim fans a taste of the real stuff!!! But, my bud Vlerkies states "we got a lot of noobs over here" which means "yes" it will be scaleable. (I don't know of a flight sim that isn't). As for a baseball bat, "he steps to the mound, jhook throws a hard slider to the left and Zolos swings and misses, strike one"

[Vlerkies]

The "g-meter" as you say, gives us hard core sim fans a taste of the real stuff!!! But, my bud Vlerkies states "we got a lot of noobs over here" which means "yes" it will be scaleable. (I don't know of a flight sim that isn't). As for a baseball bat, "he steps to the mound, jhook throws a hard slider to the left and Zolos swings and misses, strike one"

:lol: :lol: :thumbsup:
:drink: Have a couple on me

:military:

~S~

[Katz]

guys you should call new people to flying falcon newbies not noobs as after playing americas army noob is meant as a derogatory remark against someone who makes mistakes or does dumb stuff at times so doesnt sound good :|

[Vlerkies]

Sorry about that Katz, with all honesty that's not what i meant, i didn't even know that it means that. To all the newbies my apologies. Now that i know i won't use it anymore :cry:


:military:

~S~

[Recio]

Anybody facing a new combat sim is a neewie. No matter your previous experience on other sims or your experience on RL stuff, it takes time and training to get proficient to the new aircrafts and sim interface.
For instance, highly skilled Falcon (F-16) pilots would need training and coaching if they are to fly an F-18 to the same degree of realism and systems complexity as Falcon.
Of course if you are familiar with CBU switchology and procedures in F-16 you will have an easier start on F-18 A-G modes, but it is not the same.
On RL each pilot does an specific training for each aircraft, its systems, emergencies and so. Those who know how to fight a jet will surely have advantage here but even them will have to train hard on the new aircraft if it is really complex and detailled.

I am very glad to hear that this new sim aim for realism and complexibility. For me the real challenge is to be able to fly a fighter the way it is on real life,with all switchology, procedures and so. :thumbsup:

[Bladehawk]

If they do implement the scalability on difficulty settings, it would be great, as i know quite a few newbies over here who want a hardcore sim with hyper realism, but also needs the ability to scale it down so that they can learn in steps :drink:

:military:

~S~

Hey Vlerkies ! :drink:

I Agree with you on the "scalability on difficulty" but if a real procedure is done by A+B+C+D+E procedures, the"scalability" means what ?
That the real procedure is done only by A+B ?
The flight model "scalability" means that a newby will fly with "Unrealistic" parameters, gain a wrong prespective of what the plane can and can´t do, and then some day when the newbie decides to go "REAL" he "freezes" because A+B just´n work anymore... :shock: ooops !!!
and all the mental mecanization of procedures will be more difficult because the time seems "short" to make A+B+C+D+E
And more ! the F16 in "REAL" FM becomes week in comparison with simplified model ... this is the point in "scalability on difficulty" that I think in the end "backfires"...
To me Is KEEP IT Hyper Realistic And PERIOD.
Then Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! Read & Practice ! until the Hard becomes "AUTOMATIC" this is the way that real pilots do... :thumbsup:

[Vlerkies]

I agree with what you said Bladehawk, but what i meant by making it scalable is not to give the F-16 extraordinary abilities like F4 does. But to slacken the pace of information and responsibility given to a newbie down a bit. I know there are going to be training missions for this purpose, now you get people who learn better from reading a book and then you get people who learn better from seeing pictures, now if you implement some sort of system in the training missions where cirles or lines get drawn around the button to be pressed or movement to make with the yoke it will help alot already. Or even implementing a training range like the one on F-18 Korea where the new pilot can take his time to get used to all the systems of the A/C.

But when it comes to a campaign there is no time for training because a war is going on. By giving the new pilot missions with a lesser threat than what they would normally get, that is already scalability, for e.g in F4 it didn't matter if you came straight out of "flight school" as soon as you start a campaign you are either tasked with Deep Strike, OCA Strike. And for some new pilots this will sound very intimidating because of all, the Air defences en route to the target area and most likely a few enemy CAP missions. Now for a new pilot needing to accomplish all this he might forget small critical procedures on what to do when something happens.


I am all for Realism and ofcourse want things to be kept real. But remember there might be people bying this sim when it comes out who have never touched a highly realistic sim in their life let alone a sim that simulates military aircraft and weapons systems. So by making it scalable it will motivate them to learn all the realistic aspects of the A/C's systems and weapons systems rather than them coming to the conclusion that they will never be able to fly this sim and that they wasted their money.


Just my 2cents though


Thanks for the drink bud here's one for you :drink:


:military:

~S~

[Antler]

I Agree with you on the "scalability on difficulty" but if a real procedure is done by A+B+C+D+E procedures, the"scalability" means what ?
That the real procedure is done only by A+B ?


Maybe we could have options for infinite ammo, or remove high G black/red out, or even remove sun lens flares/blinding, or something on those lines.

Before you wallop me with a realism arguement, I know this is far from realistic. But consider those of us who do not have such good marksmanship yet. I know the first time I played a flight sim I had infinite ammo. Of course I turned it off when I was more confident, but I probably also would have been bored to death honing my gunnery skills on the same training mission time and time again.

[Vlerkies]

That's why they should include a training theatre, which has a bombing range and everything. Like in F-18 Korea

[Bladehawk]

Vlerkies
I agree with you in the "motivation" factor , but see what Antler asked???

Give me Infinite this ! Infinite that! remove "G" ... is this the learning motivation that we are talking ? passing from SuperMan to a "simple" fighter pilot...

I Agree with you but there are 1000 Antler´s waiting for "Lomac up" FO. :evil:

regards. :thumbsup:

[Antler]

Give me Infinite this ! Infinite that! remove "G" ... is this the learning motivation that we are talking ? passing from SuperMan to a "simple" fighter pilot...

I Agree with you but there are 1000 Antler´s waiting for "Lomac up" FO.


Oooookaaaaayyyy....

Lets just clear a few things up... I don't want to play lomac, or I would be doing so. I don't want a lomac-esq game, or I would be asking Ubisoft for a sequel. I don't want to be superman, or I'd play Quake with God mode on, No Clipping on and Fly mode on. Besides, I don't like a big S on my chest and wearing my underpants on the outside.

I'm not asking for a non-realistic sim - really. I'm all for realism. It's actually more fun. What I was suggesting is an option for those things, so that enthusiasts don't have to play with them on, but they're there for the newbies.

The topic of scalable difficulty arose in this thread, and I was giving a suggestion. I am not in any way promoting LOMAC, so please stop implying that I want to either "'Lomac up' FO" or play Lomac.

[jhook]

Vlerkies, Bladehawk, PLEASE, your shocking the monkey! :D Seriously, name a fight sim that isn't scaleable? :| It took me three reads of the manual and two weeks playing training missions in Falcon before I understood how to play and what to look for in the game. Fighter Ops will be even more intense!!! :shock: You guys know me enough that I am a big!, advocate of realisim, but you have got to give the young'ins time to learn. :)

[Vlerkies]

So true jhook. :thumbsup:

And with that the prosecution rests it's case :lol:


:drink: Have a cold one on me jhook, Bladehawk

:military:

~S~

[Zolos]

*** Disclaimer ***

No flight sim fans were harmed in the making of this thread, all baseball bats were simulated, and any resemblence to software developers either real or implied is strictly in good humor. :drink:

[jhook]

Oh Zolos, I feel soo retarded right now! :lol:

[Zolos]

Hang on jhook, I'll have a few :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink: and join you!

[Vlerkies]

Hehehehe
:drink: :drink:

:military:

~S~

[Bladehawk]

I rest my case... for now :wink:

For all in the forum :drink:

[Vlerkies]

Shot mate :thumbsup:

:military:

~S~