PILOT "SIMULATION" A.I / Personal Stats

[Bladehawk]

This topic was open for brainstorming ... please fire at will :thumbsup:

[Allen]

Along with characterizing the AI Skill as Ace...Rookie, also characterize two other attributes: Aggressiveness and Fighting Spirit (Flying Corps Gold did something like this). So, FighterOps would charcterize a pilot's Skill, Aggressiveness, and Fighting Spirit.

Skill has to do with the effectiveness of an attack.

Aggressiveness has to do with the tactics of the attack.

Fighting Spirit has to do with with the fight-or-flight response (tendency to stay and fight or run from the conflict). In particular, fight-or-flight seems to be missing from most sims and games -- the AI always fights -- in real life, people run somtimes.

These two additional characteristics would allow one to simulate the differences between pilots coming from different backgrounds (as from different countries). Moreover, they could be adjusted in real time to reflect changes in the situation.

Regarding Aggressiveness: one could have a Pilot that is Very-Aggressive (in your face and closes quickly) or a Pilot that is Very-Careful (i.e. sets up shots by the numbers and avoids one-on-one dogfights with superior aircraft) and other degrees of Aggressiveness.

Regarding Fighting Spirit: One could have a Pilot who is "Determined" who will take on all opponents in tough situations (maybe even losing situations) or "Demoralized" who (perhaps due to insufficient training and support) avoids conflict with USA or Russian pilots altogether, but will fight other country's pilots, and will not take on a superior Aircraft. And, one could have other degrees of Fighting Spirit.

The game's internal software could do a check whenever something significant happens and perhaps update the AI characteristics current status. So, if a pilot loses a wingman, they may become somewhat demoralized and flee. Or, the cautious AI pilot, now being one against many, may flee out of caution.

Internally, the game could combine Skill, Aggressiveness, and Fighting Spirit to form a probability of using various tactics and a probability of success. The probabilities could be updated in real time based on a simple analysis of circumstances -- does the AI have support or not -- is the AI on the six of an inferior aircraft or merging head on with a superior aircraft -- and so on.

Combining these three factors and the combat situation to adjust probabilities of AI responses would make the AI wingmen and opponents seem real and unpredictable -- unpredictable comes from the use of probabilities -- and unpredictable is real life.

I wrote the same in the thread on Mission Editors (this version is slightly updated based on feedback). But, it seems more appropriate here -- assuming I understand the topic :)

[Vlerkies]

Sounds good mate :thumbsup:


:military:

~S~

[Bladehawk]

This Was the mail that I have send to "Shadow"...
I think I can show it...


Dear Claude
Sorry to bother but I need your help.
Can this be implemented in Falcon ?

After all this years of patches in Falcon I still continue to see a poor AI behaviour on non human pilots.

Many of this info as been gathered in a study of mine about the attack procedure of 3 Arcade Simulations on PS2, ACE COMBAT 4, Energy Air Force, and Starlancer from Microsoft.
The realism of the flight models can be “Arcadish” but the AI in Non human pilots is Very Very Good !
If programmers G2I or BSM could apply the same attack envelope, I think Falcon would finally gain the respect to his AI.

A good way to improve AI is to SAPI (SIMPLIFY AND FREE PLAYER INPUT ) the attack procedure. how ?
Instead of ordering "Attack my Target" over and over again, and sometimes watching our wingman NOT attacking an SA2 when he is carrying a AGM88 just because the mission is a strike to a bridge or a CAP !!
Or flying over a Mass of Air defence units when he could attack from a safe distance…

The pattern of attack should have 4 principal Vectors

1 - "ENGAGE Air to AIR offensive"
- The AI pilots would attack without covering our six, and pursue enemy aircraft 80% of times until get the kill !!
- 60% of the times they can fire more than 1 missile to the same plane without confirming if the first missile has achieved the kill.
- Turning ECM on and off (without us giving the order…)
- In a dogfight or BVR, if the plane is loaded with a AGM 88 the AI pilot will first try to shoot down Aircraft and secondly SEAD any Enemy Air defences. (locking his plane…)
- In dogfight range 90% of times he ejects the most heavy ordenance (bombs) just keeping the Harms or some Mavericks ( depending the Weight and drag) they cause.

2 - "ENGAGE Air to AIR defensive"
- The AI pilots would attack and try to cover our six the best they can, 80% of times they not pursue enemy aircraft if they get to far from our plane.
- 70% of times they don´t fire more than 1 missile to the same plane without confirming if the first missile has achieved a kill.
- Turning ECM on and off (without us giving the order…)
- In a dogfight or BVR if loaded with a AGM 88 the AI pilot will try at any time to SEAD Enemy Air defences (if locked by them) and secondly destroy enemy aircraft.
- In dogfight range 60% they eject the most heavy ordenance (bombs) always keeping the Harms.
- The Mavericks ( depending the Weight and drag) they cause.

3 - "ENGAGE Air to Ground defensive".
- The AI pilots would attack the designated mission target after "SEADING" (and at any time), (AGM88 range), protecting our flight from Enemy Air Defences.
- At any time they will engage enemy aircraft if they get (18 miles) from his plane, only then, would they attack any other ground targets.
- Turning ECM on and off (without us giving the order…)
- The attack distance would be done from long to medium Weapon range and 80 % of times avoiding passing over the Enemy Air defences.

4 - "ENGAGE Air to Ground offensive".
- The AI pilots always try to attack the designated mission target first, and secondly try to protect our flight, by "SEADING".
- Always try to engage the ground first before defending themselves against enemy aircraft until they get 8 miles or so.
- Turning ECM on and off (without us giving the order…)
- The attack would be done from long to close Weapon range and 30% they could pass could pass over the Enemy Air Defences.


Commands like “Go defensive !” put the flight in Air and Ground Defensive mode
“Go offensive !” put the flight in Air and Ground offensive mode .

Starting from this four vectors I think Falcon AI could become fantastic !

What do you say Claude ?


Best Regards from this true Falconeer to another…
I´m going to have a son in 17 of May… Yes one more Falconeer is coming !

Nuno “Bladehawk” Palma

[Vlerkies]

Congrats on your new addition to the family bud, i'm sure he will make an excellent falconeer

:drink: :drink:

:military:

~S~

[Bladehawk]

THANK

And when people ask im :
"Who do you like the most...mom or dad ?"
He Will answer " VIPER !! " :shock:

Yep ! this the nex generation of falconeers... :mrgreen:

[SelfDefense]

I like Allens idea of AI modeling. "Fighting spirit" could be tied to damage modeling of the aircraft. If the pilot loses an engine or is heavily damaged he/she would be more likely to turn tail and run.

:thumbsup:

[Bladehawk]

I like allens Idea,merged with mine gets even better ! :thumbsup:

[Allen]

Yes, Bladehawk is providing more detail to the rules that an AI algorithm would follow. My concept is just an aspect of the total AI approach.

Here's hoping some of this gets into Fighter Ops at the "ground floor" level. Then, it can be enhanced with subsequent releases :)

[spyro23]

Allen and Bladehawk have great ideas! I hope that FO guys read this forum and make awesome AI. But I thing you guys forggot one importand issue!
What about our avatar? In majority flight sims there are black (red) outs.Black and red outs depend only of G.
But in real life how many G and how long pilot can take depends of many variables. For exemple when you fly few hours patrol mission on high altitude you can take less G then in GAI mission. During dog-fight in first part you can take, lets say, 9G but few minutes later you can take only 7G without blackout.
Long flight on very low altitude (turbulent atmosphere) also decrease pilots stamina.
And what about sudden decompresion? In falcon you can choose air source but when you make by accident decompresion nothing happend.
I hope FO team take this into account.
Sorry for my english (only STANAG 2nd degree)

[Allen]

spyro23 is right, the AI model should account for gray-outs/blackouts somehow.

I know that the AI may have to cheat to be competitive with the human-player. Still, it is disconcerting to get into a turning fight and gray-out while the enemy turns inside me in a way that suggests higher g-tolerance.

[Pacman]

Thank you Bladehawk for some good thinking on the subject.
This is a very usefull thread.

Maybe we can build on those idea's for fighterops.
I'm afraid that G2i's involvement in Falcon is completely over so we will no longer work on it.

Keep the idea's comming gentlemen.

Best regards,

[Vlerkies]

That is one of the most important things, is A.I. GLOC. A computer controlled pilot can't always be better than a human pilot, for instance i've seen human pilots black out on falcon and the A.I. just carries on flying like nothing is happening


:military:


~S~

[IxianMace]

Maybe the AI is just managing its speed very well, and the pilot is just really good!! :shock: :lol:

Until a 'real' AI is created, (i.e. one that is 'dynamic', isn't predictable, and that learns from its experiences), AI will probably just be that... AI. :(

[Vlerkies]

Possibly, but i noticed it especially with the Mig-19, it's like the computer has thrust vectoring, when he decides to turn around he almost does an immediate 180 degree flip along the axis

Oh and off topic i think such an A.I. has already been created, in Unreal Tournament, the A.I. learns from your movements, strategies and mostly from your mistakes :thumbsup:

:military:


~S~

[FlyBoy01]

Does anyone know if the same type of AI modelling in UT can be done in a flight sim. Imagine pilots that you fly against learning your tactics and devising a counter for them....
Most of the better sims seem to program Shaw's book into the pilots with each level, Ace, Veteran etc. being somewhat better versed in Shaw's logic.

[Bladehawk]

Thank you Bladehawk for some good thinking on the subject.
This is a very usefull thread.

Maybe we can build on those idea's for fighterops.
I'm afraid that G2i's involvement in Falcon is completely over so we will no longer work on it.

Keep the idea's comming gentlemen.

Best regards,

Hey "Pacman"...
Did you say "G2i's involvement in Falcon is completely over" how???
This means that only GenAv will make FO ?

I´m confused G2i gets Falcon then "bang ! Game over !", now FO ?

[Buckshot]

Bladehawk, you might want to read up on the news announcemts from the last few months, on the fighterops site, and on frugals.

To sum it up, the contract extension Atari were offering on the Falcon licence was deemed unreasonable. Thus OIR and all further work on Atari's code was dropped. Fighter Ops is going to be a totally new sim, that way we are free to develop a sim for the hard core community, nobody else has a say in dumbing it down, rushing it out etc etc.

The FAQ which is accessible from the main page should answer many of your questions.

[jhook]

Bladehawk, in a previous thread, Buckshot barked out "Atari wanted 7 figures for the Falcon code" (I guess he ment 7 figures U.S.)! :shock: :shock: :shock: That's why I'm glad to see a new game from the ground up!, :D and I also think G2I/Gen Av will keep the codes and allow them to be updateable. :thumbsup:
P.S. congats on the little viper! :cry: :? :| :) :D :thumbsup:

[Vlerkies]

Well being a community based project i hope they will keep it updatable
:drink:

:military:


~S~