A New Benchmark

[jhook]

Greetings,
I wish to take this opportunity to suggest a few thing that could make this sim "the new benchmark". Iv'e noticed everyone in the comunity is dancing around the samething. They want a playable sim with a wider base of optinons; such as two seater AI controlled aircraft, better playable multiplayer capabilities, ect. But, in my opinion, a better sim starts with the right approach to how you would create the operational platform of the game. (ie. how the graphical interface works with the in-game codes, ect.) Let's face it, technology improves about every 6 to 8 months and if you could create a platform that aloud graphical and code updating, you will have reached the new benchmark. A 1600x1200 playable tiles set is one exceptional aproach. The new cards that are out now (mine is the FX 5600) can run 2400x1800 without too many hicups (stuttering). The problem here isn't the computer or the video cards, it's the data edits that run the graphical process through the video card. And running data edit of the sim through the main processor. It's all in how the platform is designed. I say "START THERE"!!! As for a general wish list, I will pop it from time to time, once the platform is established, to sucker punch some ideas that have'nt been suggested yet (such as "hot pits", package distrubution, carrier ops "what it's realy like" and other ideas that haven't been addressed). I think we, as a comunity, have to establish a starting point! Just point to them (Fighter Ops) a place to begin! Thanks.
Jhook

[Raptorman]

Don't forget it has to be ready in Q4 2004.

[jhook]

A Q4 release is'nt far fetched. If certain steps have been taken and G2I has reached a code platform and are ready for graphics and game data editing. Since I read that any moderator as a signed NDA, Seculation at this point is futile. I only hope that a good graphical interface is used (DX10 is just an engine that uses software through windows drivers). If the agree to disclose that they have reached that point, then a Q4 release is possible. But until then, the conversations are simply dancing in circles as you all can see on the forums.

[FlyBoy01]

Does anyone really know if G2i has a code platform yet?

[Sonofabeech]

can someone please explain "Q4 2004"

[PapaBear]

fourth quarter

[Sonofabeech]

Thanks for clearing that up :drink:

[Vlerkies]

:D boet you must seriously watch CNN more, especially the business news :lol: Anyway, i'm planning to go down to Durbs in december, maybe Margate :thumbsup:


:military:
~S~

[jhook]

This is very good news 16 162 Raven! Now we can see a little bit of some art work and maby a graphical yummy or two. As for the graphical platform, could you tell us if it will utilize Glide or simply be a D3D base engine. I know you have an NDA (in lament terms; non-disclosure-agreement) but a little fidget of info on the graphics engine would benifit me and the community a great deal (like; how far you can go with graphic detail, ect.). I have a wish list, but I realy woun't get into it right now until I know realistically what can be added. I'm one for detail (not nessesarily graphic detail) but a step that can provide levels of realisim and detail within this sim (if possible). Anyone else can chime in on this as if they are going to release a demo, maby they can give a little clues as to the graphics engine.

[Katz]

any updates and info will be posted by either Stang, Buckshot or Pacman so everyone will just have to wait sorry :-p

[gharper1]

Does anyone really know if G2i has a code platform yet?

G2i does. :-p :-p :drink:

[jhook]

I'm going out on a lim to say that the graphics engine will support glide (i'm guessing so as to explian why knowing this information is so valuable). Glide uses advanced code instructions which allow graphical tools (such as vertex shader, alpha blending, FSAA, ambient light geometry and advanced anostopic filtering) to do real time graphic architecture during a sim. Here comes the bad news, these tools take alot of power to run. Only higher end cards can produce these tools. Low end cards have to turn off many things to run the sim. But to have the advanced instuction set available would put this sim (Fighter Ops) over the hill and could produce some of the most incredible terrain out there. This is my first part of a wish list, to see a sim that creates a very real environment to fly in. But when doing this, Fighter Ops would have to allow a down mix for those who don't have the ability to run all of the eye candy. Another point about running Glide would be that the video ram would use alot of the computer ram to line up the graphical data. 512 or better (since the graphics would run at about 5 to 15 megs a second!) These are just a small sample, if this project is going to be the next benchmark (sorry for saying that soo often), and if Fighter Ops is going to use the Glide instructions for it's graphic engine. The benefits here outwiegh the drawbacks. Say, has anyone seen a terrain mapped out using the latest Glide instructions? Al I can say is WOW!!!

[BlackAce]

with respect to your wish, there are some points I'm curious about. First of all why are you intrested in graphics too much? or in other words why you're extreme? you mentioned 2400x1800 resolution, may be you're at the performance side of it but you must know that graphical perfection is not upon resolution, resolution is only usefull for graphical artists not for games, and again I have 1.7 Ghz 512mb Ram with GF4 440, and still I cant run Porshe unleashed in 1600x1200 at a good FPS rate

and what is Glide? is there a new version of it? I thought it has been ditched years ago when 3dfx closed.

anyways, graphical detail is even behind the 10th place for me, because in a night flight, or under heavy fog, you're alone with the instruments,

besides, if G2I's core-aim is to create a world-wide combat simulation, Im sure that they will create a game that can work on a 1Ghz computer with an adequate graphics card.

however, like I said resolution is nothing, quality depends on texture sizes and the "shaders" so they could give something "fresh" for the extremists like you :) by keeping those at high levels which can be set easily to low for older systems. But I would say "dont expect something that could blow you up!"

[Katz]

Does anyone really know if G2i has a code platform yet?
Yes we do have a code base and nooo its not Falcon 4.0 either but thats all im saying

[Stuntie]

The main blockage in graphics is in three areas:
A) DirectX version
B) Low end users
C) Code generation

A) DirectX version is important as you can use more and better features with newer versions.
As Fighter ops (FO) is a new game it is not restricted to supporting an older DX version as would be the case with an older code base.
It's harder to reversion code than to write from new, so FO can take advantage of the latest DX optimisations.
(Also work done with OIR will have shown the team many 'shortcomings' as well as good practices. So they will have an idea what to avoid as well.)

B) If the devs could guarentee that all the users would have 5600 cards or better, then they could write graphics code to match. But welcome to the real world. People don't always have the latest, so you need to cut your cloth to match.
FO will need to work with lower spec systems. A cut-off point is needed (e.g. CPU XX GHz YYY RAM graphics card with ZZ Mb) but it needs to be such that users are not excluded just because they don't have the very latest kit.

C) Code generation.
The traditional maxim of poor code runs poorly.
But having seen the work done on OIR I don' t have any worries about this.

Also the scheme of releases and add-ons will aid updating graphical features in a way most games have problems with.
Compare the iprovements to IL2/Forgotten Battles with the "patch what you must then drop it" approach to most sims.


p.s. it's not the Unreal code base either :-p

[jhook]

Thank you for giving me your input on this topic. Believe me, I know that older systems will have trouble as time goes on. Stuntie, you are very correct in that the code determines how the graphic info is processed. The point here is reaching a new benchmark. Glide is just a term used for Open GL (or glide) which utilizes advanced graphical instructions. Low end systems can still run the game, but with most of the advanced instructions off. Buckshot gave a hint at this kind of a graphic engine, and I realy don't need to know what it is!, but it gives me an idea to how we can use these graphics to our advantage. For example; "how long has HD tv's been out there and how long did it take to get even 6 channels in HD?" Fighter Ops is an HD sim. You guys said it yourself. Fighter Ops is a high fidelity flight sim.

[Falcon]

Don't forget it has to be ready in Q4 2004.


tell me its a joke?
*rofl
interessting :D

[jhook]

Falcon,
No, it's not a joke. Fighter Ops is a work in progress. Perhaps Buck or Pacman could chime in in this. I'm just happy that the graphic engine will be more advanced than any other flight sim, which is where I would start. I've got some great ideas coming as I'm gathering together more info from real world flight operation. Falcon 4 was a begining, let's continue to improve!