Modding avenues

[WOPPA]

K I appologise if i was out of order in my last thread but I only wanted to talk about how to get into modding this new sim as I have some time free and want to put it to good use asap. And maybe start something that might help people with a simular interest.

questions like :

What to mod ?

how to make it ?

and to what specs are we looking at ?

I guess the sooner we get to know these anwsers the sooner the community can start.

hey well i mean I only started 3d modelling this morning but I'm on a roll so might have a decent basic f4 model very soon and it can only get better from there.

when would we be looking at a SDK from G2i ?

I only wanna help out I don't wanna argue black and white I just wanna reply to my questions that have been posted and which i'll list over here asap and bring over the sensible answers too.

Regards

[WOPPA]

posted by eluzion :

But back to your question. It depends on what you want to do. I couldn't help you with any coding stuff but if you wanted to learn how to code, I'd hop onto Amazon.com and pick up books or something.

If you are interested in 3d modeling, then that's something I have some knowledge in. 3D modeling applications can be very very pricey but luckily, both Alias and Discreet have "free" versions. Both Maya PLE (Alias) and GMax (Discreet) are free modeling programs you can download off their website. www.discreet.com and www.aliaswavefront.com. There really is no best, each have their pros and cons. Personally, I like GMaxs poly modeling tools better than Mayas. Each come with tutorials you can do then from there, search on google for more tutorials.

If you're really serious about getting into 3d modeling, you can pick up one of the high end 3d programs, such as Maya 5.0, 3dsmax, etc. If you get any of those, check out www.3dbuzz.com and download their VTMs. Those training videos are VERY VERY good and will get you from being a complete newbie, to modeling a pretty detailed alien head (if you do the 3dsmax videos). These programs cost a lot of money (thousands of dollars) but if you are a student, you can get them at student discount prices for pretty cheap (in the hundereds) but they cannot be used for commercial work.

[WOPPA]

posted by stuntie :

You can do other things as well.

Terrain and theater work for instance. You want Norwayand Sweden to be represented then where are the bases, what do they fly, what SAMs and other units do they have?
where is Sweden, whats the place look like?
etc. etc.
This is a mixture of research and modeling (3D models, textures, map data etc.)

There is data work.
How many hardpoints does a Gripen have?
What gets carried on what hardpoint?
This is mostly research, but can include modelling and texturing as well)


Mybe even coding help.
If you are a DirectX controller guru then maybe you could help sorting out multiple joystick/rudder/mfd issues.
You will need to know how to program though, which is not an easy task.


I think the main answer is "What do you want to do?"

[WOPPA]

posted by hotdog :

The most important thing before anyone can start to contribute will be for G2 to provide us with some kind of SDK documentation. This will be required in order for anyone to understand the inner workings of course, scenery format, etc. At the moment, we have nothing to work on. Starting off learning some kind of modelling program will be great of course, but like many people mentioned here, a lot of information is required.

[WOPPA]

k I'm gonna get back to making a mace then a P-38 in G-MAX ;0)

Regards

WOPPA

[Buckshot]

Hi Woppa, appology accepted, in the future if you don't like someones posting style just ignore it, you both stepped over the line, he ignored the warnings though so he's gone.

Onto your question, Eluzions advice is very good, if you are wanting to contribute you will need to find an area you want to work in, and at least get some background experience, learn the software programs involved, for example if 3d modeling is your thing, 3dsmax or maya are programs you will want to master. As eluzion mentioned there are free programs that you can download to dabble in also.

As I've said in other posts, remember this is a very early stage of this development, so asking for SDK's etc is a little premature. If you are new to modelling you will have a fairly steep learning curve ahead of you, and would be very hard pressed to get in on the initial developments of ACC. Remember though that ACC will consist of many incremental developments, so if you are serious there's no reason why you can't join the team somewhere down the track.

[WOPPA]

How long until we see a Dev forum to then I won't be out of context in the future ?

and the same questions won't keep roling by in general discussion...

Regards

WOPPA

[WOPPA]

Yeah cheers buckshot I know it's not going to happen overnight but I would like a much help and stir as much interest as possible so everybody knows how to get into stuff if they wished to and know whats on offer too..

soon the better for all as I see it ?

I'm sure you have a plan to release all this info down the line but hey I'm enthusiastic as fighter opps in theory sounds great and if i can do something to get meself into that then I'm gonna have a go even if it's a white picket fence at the bottom of a garden then fine I'll be happy with that..

I don't think weapon building would be that far down the road to start or maybe even buildings for that matter. I've made some great quake and Unreal maps before so i do have a eye for stuff like this and enjoy doing it. and have also tech drawing under my belt (even though that was a while ago I'm sure it's all still up there somewhere)..

Regards

WOPPA

[Ace]

Woppa, the only answer that can be given for the time being is "wait and see" (I'm starting to love this phrase ... it sounds a lot like 3-4 weeks :mrgreen: ). I'm sure information will begin flowing soon enough :)

Stay tuned ...

Ace

[Buckshot]

Enthusiasm is great and to be commended, as we get further into the development you will have the opportunity to participate more, so keep practicing and stay tuned. As for the forum you posted in, there's no problem there, the Dev forum is for Dev's only (for obvious reasons).

[WOPPA]

yup roger that chaps

cheers

WOPPA

[WOPPA]

Eluzion do you know any good tutorials for GMAX ?

I've half made the P38 in the discreet tutes but It's not giving me no real understanding of things it's just telling me what to do..

And i also had to make my own BG images as the ones that came with it were fubared as one image was a different scale to the rest :?

but it is coming along and is interesting ;0)

Regards

WOPPA

[Eluzion]

Hrm... I don't know any GMax tutorials off hand. You might want to head over to 3dbuzz.com and download the 3dsmax videos. 3dsmax is a much stronger program and works a little bit different... but it's very similar to GMax (GMax is a watered down version of 3dsmax basically). Either way, he talks about a lot of different things that are useful in any 3d program.

And remember, if you're creating models for games try to keep the poly count low. What I do is "block it out" first... just quickly made the general shapes of everything (on a plane that would be the fuselage, wings, vertical stab, ailerons, etc.), then go through and start making cuts and move verticies. Also, if you're working with an object like an airplane... remember you don't have to model both sides. Use the slice plane (I think GMax has that tool) tool or just make sure you keep an edge running down the middle of the object... create that half of the plane then just use the mirror tool to mirror it over to the other side. If certain objects are only on one side of a plane, wait till the end after you mirror the other half then add those pieces. One thing nice about 3dsmax is there is a symmetry modifier that allows you to mirror the other side right from the start and while you work with one half, the other half automatically updates. I think it's possible to do this in GMax too using the mirror modifier some how but everytime I tried, it never worked.

Anyways, hope I didn't lose you there. :) Good luck!

[BlackAce]

For model schemes and data on specific equipment;

-X- Use these for information and graphical purposes.
http://www.FAS.org
http://www.airwar.ru/indexe.html
-X- And these for schemes&blueprints,
http://www.onnovanbraam.com/index.php?m=blueprints&g=modernplanes
http://www.suurland.com/
PS: You can texture these on plane surfaces (side, top, front) to model your equipment as accurate as possible. DO NOT forget that picture and plane size must be 1:1 otherwise texture will not be accurate.

[Vlerkies]

Shot for the links BlackAce :thumbsup:


:military:

~S~

[BlackAce]

:) thanks, here is more Close Air Support :thumbsup:

Using schemes and blueprints in 3D Studio,

-X- first seperate the sides into seperate files but picture size ratios must be exact, like 1:1, 4:3 etc.

www.planetunreal.com/airfight/files/blackace/tut01.jpg

-X- then open your model, or a new project if you're starting from scratch

www.planetunreal.com/airfight/files/blackace/tut02.jpg

-X- after creating major parts of fuselage, turn your model into wireframe from material settings,

www.planetunreal.com/airfight/files/blackace/tut03.jpg

-X- now, you're ready to implement blueprints into your project. create 3 planes (their size ratios must be set according to its texture size ratio which I mentioned above)

www.planetunreal.com/airfight/files/blackace/tut04.jpg

-X- now you can check out and improve your models accuracy,

www.planetunreal.com/airfight/files/blackace/tut05.jpg
www.planetunreal.com/airfight/files/blackace/tut06.jpg
www.planetunreal.com/airfight/files/blackace/tut07.jpg

as you can see my model is not very accurate for a F-15E, more like ZF-15Z, it was modeled 2 years ago, and I was learning on my own!, I hope this one could help for the others.... :)

[BlackAce]

And remember, if you're creating models for games try to keep the poly count low. What I do is "block it out"first... just quickly made the general shapes of everything (on a plane that would be the fuselage, wings, vertical stab, ailerons, etc.), then go through and start making cuts and move verticies...

With respect to your advice, I would not recommend "simple" blocks for start, because using "cut" and "smooth" tools increasing poly count devastatingly :), So, I would recommend planned blocks for start. Check out the plan of the model and see how many curve points that part has. Then create blocks with enough segments. But I think that nobody could foresee how many segments needed exactly for that part, (except Kasparov) so keep in your mind that you will use "cut" and "smooth" tools inevitably.

For LERX (somewhat, shoulder) and wing sections, DO NOT create them as additional parts unless they are perpendicular enough. For example, you're modelling a F-16, when you finished the center fuselage, extrude LERX parts rather than modelling an additional part. But if its a F-15, Airintake and Wing parts are cutting each other at high degree, so you can add an additional part to it.

If you dont do that here is an example of result, (experince is a hard teacher...)

-X- On F-15, light effects are not affected (significantly)

http://www.planetunreal.com/airfight/files/blackace/shade_f15.jpg

-X- On F-16, due to low angle between the fuselage and LERX, it _should_ seem like its one, but it does not,

http://www.planetunreal.com/airfight/files/blackace/shade_f16.jpg

See the "black line" between the red arrows? It tells that my model sucks :) because I made the wings in seperate parts as shown below F-16. You have to create parts like that by extruding if you want to make something at least good enough.

PS: Please correct my advices if you figure out something wrong in my text.

[Vlerkies]

Those models look great, and thanks for the extra CAS.

:military:
~S~

[BlackAce]

:) thanks but they're good for an arcade style game www.planetunreal.com/airfight I think FO will have much better models and textures.

[Katz]

your very talented BlackAce and the links and info you posted could be very useful for someone interested in trying modelling so thankyou for all that :thumbsup:

[BlackAce]

Thank you, it's my pleasure to help,

I belive there are other talents among us. It would be very usefull if we can form up a user group in the time being. However its quite early I think. Anyways, once we get the instructions and capabilities of the game engine, we will be able to contribute actively I guess. Till that time, like Eluzion said, we can tune up / stay tuned.

[Stuntie]

Some GMAX links at:
http://www.simviation.com/gmaxindex.htm

There was agreat site www.freeflightdesign.com but it wasn't there when I checked earlier today.

There is also a book "The GMAX Bible", but it ain't cheap.

Best advice is think small and grow.
Do a house, then a tank then a jet etc.
I started on a jet but am going back to do a tank to improve my basic skills.

I hope there's something Programmers can do in the SDK, coz I'm good at that...