View Full Version : To Developers, 2 questions
Straight Razor
03-04-2004, 05:12
It is mentioned in your features page that F-15E strike eagle will be included in this game. f-15E is a dual seat deep penetration multirole fighter, so how will a single player assume command of a jet that requires two pilots to fly. This is my first question :D
My second question is that I have been observing lately in the flight sim community some games that target certain religions or races, by that i mean demonizing them in an attempt to convey a political message. Will this game also include such contnet, or will it be free of it.
Thanx in advance, and good luck in the development of this game
As with all things in life sacrifices will be made. We've been flying two-seaters on our own for long enough (Eagles, Tomcats, Apaches, etc) to know it can be done.
I realise we're going for ultra-realism here, but if it was so true to life we actually needed two players to fly a Strike Eagle, would you be prepared to go through the 18 months of conversion training first?
As for the political messages? I don't think its ever done... fact is, most flight sims feature theaters where real-life combat has taken place in the past. History lends a hand, does us a favour, if you catch my drift. A flight sim in Scotland for example just wouldn't work... unless you're willing to accept William Wallace had a fleet of Falcons to fight the English with! :mrgreen:
Well the two cockpits are easy to do i would have thought. Like in Apache Longbow you could have a key to hop into the back seat. You would have a different view, but still be able to pilot the aircraft.
I think in another sim the computer took control, like an auto pilot. Dont like that idea as much.
As for demonising countries, I guess sim's take the pilot to where the action is - ala Middle east. I personally dont see any political message in these scenarios.
Whilst we're on the topic of scenario's:
BRING BACK THE FJORDS OF NORWAY......
WE DEMAND AN EF2000 STYLE BATTLE OF SCANDANAVIA
MMMMM, THOSE FJORDS....MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Fjords.........
I'm not a dev guy, but I am interested in the F-15E, which was discussed in the OIR/Falcon 5 forums.
Claude has always liked the idea of having both seats working in some way.
This has been done before with Fleet defender and Janes F-15.
So it is possble. And will be cool IMHO.
How it would be fone, and what level of multiplayer and single player interaction would be implemneted would depend on what the devs can do in the time available.
As to demonizing various cultures....
It's a bit tricky that one.
Whilst no one intentionally demonizes other cultures the problem is that most of the "potential conflicts" are against quite pedictable cultural groups.
By "potential conflicts" I mean ones where you can imagine things getting out of control, and a conflict happening without stretching the limit of credibility too much.
For example, hard liners win the Russian elections, resurgent nationalism and a new arms race, minor spark and then - war.
The chances or it actually happening are remote to non-existant, but we can believe it as a kind of 'fictional future'.
This is done to add a credible enemy to the game.
Lets face it a peace keeping 'war' in say, Liberia, would be more likely to happen in reality, but dull as a fast jet sim campaign - shoot down the single jet they have, bomb the almost deserted airfield that has just a machine gun for defense. Game over.
However Russia has masses of jets SAMs and other assets that can put up one hell of a fight - the enemy is tough, its a challenge, its fun.
Other hypothetical conflicts e.g. Europe Vs USA either stretch the credibility too much, or you end up with Belgian F-16s dogfighting with US F-16s, which will get rather confusing very quickly.
So it's best to fight a strong enemy with different jets to you side so you can tell who is who easier.
Sadly this leads us straight to the same groups time and time again.
Thats why places like Russia get picked on - because they can put up a fight.
High quality sims are more interested in finding a challenging enemy to give the player a better experience.
Flanker was Russian Vs Western, but with the roles reversed - You get to shoot down F-15's in an Su-27. I loved Flanker and played it loads.
The new one Lo-mac adds US jets so everyone can join in and have a go.
I was playing Silent hunter 2 recently, a sub sim in which you control a German U-Boat sinking British merchant ships.
I'm British, and you can imagine how much the U-Boats were loathed here during WW2. But I'll happily play a sim about it as it's the experience and the task that matters, not the idiology of the combatants.
(If it was for real I'd defiantely be on the destroyer killing the U-Boats.)
I also play Sub command, where I invariable pilot the Russian Akula and go off sinking US ships. i like to Akula.
Serious sims are about the challenge, and the detail, and the realism, not about who the enemy is. And anything else is not a sim, just a game.
Buckshot
03-04-2004, 07:01
First point I'd like to make on this and most of the other questions that are being asked is that you have to remember that we are very early in the development of this sim.
The sim is going to focus on realism, so obviously to fly an F15E realistically you are going to need two people over a multiplayer connection. Of course as with falcon the sim is going to have to be scaleable for those who don't wish to learn complex avionics and/or don't care about realism, so for these people they will be able to fly the F15E on their own in a similar manner to other less realistic sims on the market.
Agree with Buckshot... realism would be scaleable if we want to ensure the sales :roll:
The only thing I hope is that the development of the lower realism settings don't take away time and resources of the highest realism settings.
My english isn't good, so I don't know if I have explained it well :?
Buckshot
03-04-2004, 08:00
Understand totally Jaker, and 100% agree.
As I said we are still in the early stages so none of this is set in concrete, however realism is our priority, there are already enough low-medium fidelity sims on the market.
"Enhanced" features will still be looked at for those that choose to learn that way, although to be honest the best way to learn has always been on the full realism settings. This will be especially true with the opportunity to learn online utilising front seat/back seat operations.
Thanks Buckshot :thumbsup:
16thLoyalty
03-04-2004, 20:54
I think the best way to get the most realism out of the F-15E would be to have the option of taking the role of either seat. In single player mode you would be able to switch to either seat and bring up paneled windows of the opposite seats instruments and you would always have the ability to control basic flight surfaces from either seat. Maybe Implenting a "Freeze Mode" Similar to Falcon for more involved single player control.
In Multi-Player it would be the same thing except other players would be able to see that the seat was open in the other players f-15 apon entering the Plane selection screen and would have the option of joining that player.
Well the two cockpits are easy to do i would have
Whilst we're on the topic of scenario's:
BRING BACK THE FJORDS OF NORWAY......
WE DEMAND AN EF2000 STYLE BATTLE OF SCANDANAVIA
MMMMM, THOSE FJORDS....MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Fjords.........
Heh, I'm kind of tired off all those fjords....in real life anyway, but it would be real cool if we did get some canyons/fjords whatever....dogfighting there would be great!
Don't forget the history - a couple of sims have handled these questions quite well in the past.
Jane's F-15 and Longbow 2 both handled the cp/g quite well, IIRC you could choose to do it all yourself by switching back and forward between the cockpits, or you could select different levels of AI assistance with the job you weren't doing. The really tricky bit is getting an AI pilot to behave well when the human is in the cp/g slot!
SH's Falcon 3.0 was very good on theatres - Panama, Israel, and India/Pakistan were all believable conflicts in which a reasonable - and not politicised - situation was built up. Operation Flying Tiger (I think that was the name) was a battle in the Kurile Islands, also a bit of a new one and quite interesting.
Regards
33
You could fly missions from Scotland in a northern european theater campaign.
Sorry to say can not recall site that I recently read an article on the use of Two Saitek X45 Sticks on one PC.
Can only recall the reply "Can be done. Beauty in the eye of the beholder!
Assuming you have four hands!" .... Quote similar.
On returning to the office whilst chatting with colleague we both thought the same ... One for Pilot ... One for Co-Pilot. Wonder if that guy used it for that puspose in SP4 ... ?
Look, if this is going to meet my expectations, the terrain has to be FS2004 quality or better, the atmosphere has to be like the best commercial weather add-ons in FS. Needless to say, the whole thing must be perfect! Voice communications, the highest level graphics, and full realism in all aircraft involved from looks to operation. They build them for the military; you can build one for us.
Just virtualized the real world for us.
greenlee
05-30-2008, 22:22
My second question is that I have been observing lately in the flight sim community some games that target certain religions or races, by that i mean demonizing them in an attempt to convey a political message. Will this game also include such contnet, or will it be free of it.
I don't think Sims purposely target/ convey such message... "That's LIFE, a REALITY we can't avoid." It's like taking a photo of a plane and also acquiring the sky, I only want the plane but once she's in the sky they become one and are inseparable. It is simply part of the package. The PLANE was made for the SKY and as such LIFE for WAR.
Besides, Russia and U.S. are the only 2 manufacturing Fighters and they’re not measured as enemies "makes ya wonder why they compete, must be trigger happy!" …come to think of it, who’s the real enemy?
Afterburner
05-31-2008, 00:07
Holy Batman Ressurection ! :bigeyes:
greenlee
05-31-2008, 00:11
Holy Batman Ressurection ! :bigeyes:
:rofl You got me good! Remind me where Singapore is agian, I should be sleeping.
We are open to suggestions regarding a theater of operations where no occupant of planet earth might possibly take offense at being singled out for virtual destruction. We considered Antarctica, but the mission times would be too long for most simmers; and then there are the penguin and ozone layer issues, not to mention violations of the Antarctic Treaty. Perhaps a fictitious country like Utopia would do. But advocates of Sir Thomas Moore might be annoyed. Astronomers would surely object to dropping bombs on a pristine unknown planet of a distant star.
Please feel free to provide your recommendations on this matter.
We are open to suggestions regarding a theater of operations where no occupant of planet earth might possibly take offense at being singled out for virtual destruction. We considered Antarctica, but the mission times would be too long for most simmers; and then there are the penguin and ozone layer issues, not to mention violations of the Antarctic Treaty. Perhaps a fictitious country like Utopia would do. But advocates of Sir Thomas Moore might be annoyed. Astronomers would surely object to dropping bombs on a pristine unknown planet of a distant star.
Please feel free to provide your recommendations on this matter.
Open Sea Ops. Wait... actually that would be kinda cool since you guys were forced to include carrier ops :thumb:
We are open to suggestions regarding a theater of operations where no occupant of planet earth might possibly take offense at being singled out for virtual destruction. We considered Antarctica, but the mission times would be too long for most simmers; and then there are the penguin and ozone layer issues, not to mention violations of the Antarctic Treaty. Perhaps a fictitious country like Utopia would do. But advocates of Sir Thomas Moore might be annoyed. Astronomers would surely object to dropping bombs on a pristine unknown planet of a distant star.
Please feel free to provide your recommendations on this matter.
Personally, I would love to have Norwegian scenery included in the package. Mostly due to the fact that the russkies have grown both economically and military wise. As a result their tactical bombers as well as fighters has been flying increasingly along the coast of Norway and England, while we are sending up alert fighters to identify the planes.
While the alert routine could have two outcomes, I would love to see the Russians fly on if it was just an exercise and the F-16 pilot (me) does nothing as long as it keeps out of Norwegian territory. If I were to shoot it down just for the fun of it... well, then you have a whole new scenario :red:
But then again, I've already covered this in another thread... just felt like mentioning it again.
Another cool thing that could be with Fighter Ops is a virtual world, where simmers log in to their country. A bit of virtual politics could build alliances while you have online fights against evil nations (AI or humans). I realise that would start WW3 in a virtual matter but its Fighter Ops, not Peace-keeping Ops :whistling
greenlee
05-31-2008, 14:34
Personally, I would love to have Norwegian scenery included in the package. Mostly due to the fact that the russkies have grown both economically and military wise. As a result their tactical bombers as well as fighters has been flying increasingly along the coast of Norway and England, while we are sending up alert fighters to identify the planes.
I actually agree, over Norway will suffice me. :smile: Please no Grand Canyon or Rockies.
Please no Grand Canyon or Rockies.
NO G.C.???? :sad: My biggest dream is to have an acrobatic airplane (but I'll accept the F-16 as well) and fly fast inside G.C. :thumb:
And if I were to die in the attempt.... hell, I probably had the best time of my life anyway :red:
greenlee
05-31-2008, 21:00
NO G.C.???? :sad: My biggest dream is to have an acrobatic airplane (but I'll accept the F-16 as well) and fly fast inside G.C. :thumb:
And if I were to die in the attempt.... hell, I probably had the best time of my life anyway :red:
Well, I just think Fighting through the Canyon might turn into ARCADE, and we certainly don't want that. :smile:
We are open to suggestions regarding a theater of operations where no occupant of planet earth might possibly take offense at being singled out for virtual destruction. We considered Antarctica, but the mission times would be too long for most simmers; and then there are the penguin and ozone layer issues, not to mention violations of the Antarctic Treaty. Perhaps a fictitious country like Utopia would do. But advocates of Sir Thomas Moore might be annoyed. Astronomers would surely object to dropping bombs on a pristine unknown planet of a distant star.
Please feel free to provide your recommendations on this matter.
That can easily be fixed pick any country and have the campaign feature the ability to fly for both sides. So for F-16s an Egypt vs Israel campaign is possible you could have the campaign also focus on both sides of the fight. So option A US backs Egypt option B US backs Israel so in that case any country can be used since you can be on either side and there is going to be no issue with people getting offended. Another way is to have a scenario where a rogue general has tried to take over a country and that country asks for help to deal with the problem. The other way is to make flyable aircraft for both sides so a US vs Russian fight might involve SU33s or Mig29K vs Hornets and F-16s. The idea is balance for both sides so people can fight for both sides like in Arma.
AngryDispatcher
06-01-2008, 02:04
Ugh...
There's nothing politically correct about an F-16 loaded with CBU's, and I hope there's nothing politically correct about the theatre chosen for FO.
Maybe those who are overly-sensitive could stick to flying Red Flag sorties.
Afterburner
06-01-2008, 02:35
:rofl You got me good! Remind me where Singapore is agian, I should be sleeping. Singapore is just off the coast of Dubai.... :tongue:
Wont be for long though, Australia here I come.... :bigsmile:
fatb0y60
06-01-2008, 02:50
ahh youve seen the light burner...
Ugh...
There's nothing politically correct about an F-16 loaded with CBU's, and I hope there's nothing politically correct about the theatre chosen for FO.
Maybe those who are overly-sensitive could stick to flying Red Flag sorties.
Its not about political correctness its about making a scenario that everyone wants to play. Besides you guys have already chosen a theatre what more is there to discuss about it I doubt the selected countrys people would be upset by the campaigns theatre anyway. How about this New Zealand gets overthrown by a military coup and the countrys new leader decides to invade Australia :rofl. I'm sure that scenario would go down well apart from the fact NZ has no strike aircraft maybe a deal with China for some of those new next generation Chinese Migs. So campaign 1 would be F/A-18s and involve going up against Nzs Migs. Now if anyone got upset then next aircraft made might be a Mig for the NZ air force followed by a campaign for those on the other side of the Tasman. All this is theoretical of course but you should get the idea now. Arma has a similar sort of setup where you can be either of 3 different sides. The benefits of course are online dynamic campaigns being flown in real time with real players on either side.
Afterburner
06-01-2008, 05:35
ahh youve seen the light burner...
You betcha.... :smile:
Saw it way back in 2004 and been waiting patiently since then.... :tongue:
AngryDispatcher
06-01-2008, 11:06
How about this New Zealand gets overthrown by a military coup and the countrys new leader decides to invade Australia. So campaign 1 would be F/A-18s and involve going up against Nzs Migs.
I assume you're joking.
If not, I humbly suggest we stick to something more plausible and - may I add - simple.
Afghanistan, for instance.
I thought you guys picked Iran based on all the posts(in the other threads) and of course I was kidding about NZ vs Aussie.
AngryDispatcher
06-01-2008, 21:55
I could tell you, but then I'd have to... you know the rest.
But seriously, I don't know what the theatre is going to be. Not to say that others on the team don't.
_Big_Mac_
06-02-2008, 03:07
I think I remember Pacman saying the first combat theatre will be Middle East (without specifying countries).
Not sure if it was him, but definitely someone from the team.
There was talk about F-14s flying for the bad guys but that was a few years back hence my comment about Iran.
paul07628
06-02-2008, 10:44
Well, Iran does have Tomcats so it would only be right if they flew them I would think. Although since they don't have the support for them that they used to, wonder how long they will last.
I actually agree, over Norway will suffice me. :smile: Please no Grand Canyon or Rockies.
But, star wars canyon is a must!!!
Well, Iran does have Tomcats so it would only be right if they flew them I would think. Although since they don't have the support for them that they used to, wonder how long they will last.
I wont be able to live with the guilt of shooting a tomcat down... lets not have to kill'em :red:
Funky
I wont be able to live with the guilt of shooting a tomcat down... lets not have to kill'em :red:
Funky
+1 thx bro.
Though, i think they wont be able to get them back to flying condition
paul07628
06-03-2008, 13:35
I wont be able to live with the guilt of shooting a tomcat down... lets not have to kill'em :red:
Funky
Dude, I love Tomcats just as much as the next guy n I totally agree- I would hate to have to shoot one down but it pains me even more to see those Iranian flying them. To me, we'd be putting those 14s outta their misery.
edit: let's keep politics out of this pls.
I wont be able to live with the guilt of shooting a tomcat down... lets not have to kill'em :red:
Funky
I don't think not living after meeting a tomcat will be a problem ;)
Dude, I love Tomcats just as much as the next guy n I totally agree- I would hate to have to shoot one down but it pains me even more to see those Iranian flying them. To me, we'd be putting those 14s outta their misery.
I would agree, those 14s are not in good hands, but don't worry, it looks like they're taking good care of them... just for me and Vampyre to go steal one :evils:
And oh, "be careful what you say; punk!" (I think that line's out of a movie..), our lead programmer is Iranian... If he hears to say that he might make them waaay overpowered so you wont ever achieve your goal lol
Funky
paul07628
06-03-2008, 17:40
Oh hey- I didn't mean to offend anybody but I was talking about "those" Iranians not "all' of em ;) And if he decides to make them that overpowered, I might just defect
I was just kidding man... I know exactly what you mean; I just wanted to say that line :tongue:
Funky
paul07628
06-03-2008, 17:53
we cool, man. we cool...
Well, Iran does have Tomcats so it would only be right if they flew them I would think. Although since they don't have the support for them that they used to, wonder how long they will last.
They still have a few of them flying around they have quite a good history too only Tomcats ever to use Aim54s in combat etc. Pity about the current government but they do make a worthy adversary for a campaign and theres plenty of airbases and nuclear plants to fight over. The other good thing is a flyable Tomcat could be added on the other side to balance things. It'd be nice to fly them online although better with a USNavy skin and a Carrier to land on.
As far as i know they have been able to reverse-engineer their F-5s, and some of their Helos such as the Cobra and Huey... I think they're running some Russian upgrades on their 'newer' stuff... One sample being their new F-5/18/4/mig-29 lol ... it looks like an F-5E with the tail and the intakes of an F-18E with the engines out of a Mig-29 and some other stuff from the -14 and the -4.. I think they've used Russian upgraded avionics and weapon systems... I once red that they've done some other upgrades to their helos too, such as the ability to carry and launch Aim-9 from their Cobras!
And lastly they've designed their own (I think composite) trainer jet that they are thinking about using as a subsonic attack aircraft. This aircraft also heavily relies on Russian avionics and ejection systems and maybe some other stuff...
So having done all of the above, I don't see how they wouldn't be able to reverse-engineer, maintain, or even upgrade their Tomcats... Last time I checked, they were IN LOVE with those birds so I think they will remain in service for a long time to come - we might even see some newer variants to that jet too..
As subs stated too, Iranians have a TON of combat experience in those jets. Most of their initial pilots were trained here in the US soil and of course went to war with them and killed bunches and took names in masses :tongue: so to say hehe. They recorded the first AA kill with that aircraft and in reality made lots of history in those jets. Sometimes even using them as "little AWACSs" because of that aircraft's powerful radar (at the time - donno if its still is..)..
Ma and Vampyre are gonna go steal one someday for ourselves :evils:
But anyways, if any body's interested, there's this AWESOME book online about Iranian Tomcats and their experience during the 8 year war between Iran & Iraq. I highly recommend this book to any aviation enthusiasts as it contains VERY COOL battle stories straight from the 'rocket seats', and it is quite well written... check it out:
Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat (http://www.amazon.com/Iranian-Tomcat-Units-Combat-Aircraft/dp/1841767875/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212548274&sr=8-1)
Funky
=FB=Capt.AgulhaNegra
09-14-2008, 18:51
drawing this post
Hello to all virtual pilots, said before the main subject of my post I would like to present to you. I am the Leonardo "Black Needle" Fernandes directly from Brazil. I come representing the community Falcon Brazil using the simulator Falcon 4.0 Allied Force. Until now I only watched the forum, will now participate where I can.
Well, I wonder if the Fighter Ops will be possible, 2 pilots be on the same aircraft. Why?
* (For Virtual Squadrons) teach directly to the cadet. This is sensational. Do not imagine how this brings to reality simulator in my opinion. --- Desired Example: F-16 Block D
* Just imagine a variant of the F-15, F-15 E Strike Eagle with 2 pilots human ...
Finally, I wonder what will the FO compared with the Falcon AF? For example the cockpit clickable.
Howdy and welcome to FO forums and thank you for representing the Brazilian community here! I am sure you will enjoy your stay...
The answer to your first question would be yes.
The answer the devs would give you for your second question would be "we don't like to compare ourselves with other simulators in the community. However, no simulator to this magnitude has ever been engineered."
Funky
rjetster
09-15-2008, 02:26
Hi Black Needle,
Welcome to Fighter Ops… I will be happy to answer any questions.
Answer to Question #1
Yes, front/back seat with two pilots in the same aircraft will be supported.
Answer to Question #2
For the first module, the T-38C and T6A Texan II cockpits will be extremely detailed and very accurate in terms of the visual representation of instruments and instrument placement. You can expect the cockpits to be fully 3D and animated. Interaction with the cockpit is possible using the keyboard (to get things done faster), the mouse and a few other means.
=FB=Capt.AgulhaNegra
09-15-2008, 11:53
Hi Black Needle,
Welcome to Fighter Ops… I will be happy to answer any questions.
Answer to Question #1
Yes, front/back seat with two pilots in the same aircraft will be supported.
Answer to Question #2
For the first module, the T-38C and T6A Texan II cockpits will be extremely detailed and very accurate in terms of the visual representation of instruments and instrument placement. You can expect the cockpits to be fully 3D and animated. Interaction with the cockpit is possible using the keyboard (to get things done faster), the mouse and a few other means.
First: Thanks
Second: these include all flyable planes containing two seats right?
Three: Resuming cockpit clickable
Four: Fu*** crazy XD
Last... Thanks again and have nice flights for all!
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