Mac version?

[Bean]

Well you guys are starting from scratch, Why not? IF you decide to go with a dirextX then I understand. But if you go GL Please oh please can you do a mac version. Hell if you need some mac programmers I would work for free, I'm very serious about that. I can easily translate and dev code for the mac if you were to give me pc source. I'm sure others would volunteer as well. email is jmyahpayne AT earthlink.net I know i should "just get a PC" I am... It's just I like my mac javascript:emoticon(':oops:')

[Showtime]

How did you ever get the idea to buy a Mac anywayz?! :wink:

[StretchG5]

OK guys, Mac jokes aside, let's be serious here.

Why are there an overwhelming number of "no" votes? I mean, aside from the added time and cost of a port, which is an issue best left to G2i, how does it hurt the community? It can only help the community grow.

I represent Inside Mac Games, the premier Macintosh gaming website, as well as a sizable number of serious Macintosh flight sim enthusiasts. We love our platform and we love to fly. And not just fly -- get into the real nitty-gritty of the F-16's avionics.

Is there any reason why we can't have both our platform and our love of flying? Does it harm PC users somehow?

As Falcon 4 enthusiasts we Mac users have had to battle against strong opposition to bring SP3 or eFalcon or OIR or FV to the Mac. We've been told over and over that licensing issues have prevented Falcon 4 from coming into its own on the Macintosh. A community of dedicated Mac users exists that love the game.

Halo went full circle from a Mac game, to an Xbox game, to a PC port, and finally back to a Mac port. I can hope the same holds true for the Falcon series.

[Hughcifer]

Why all the objections to a mac port? Methinks it would be marketing genius considering a mac port ( OSX at least ) would also make a linux port much more reasonable. If you love sims it makes sense to propagate them to as many OS's as is reasonable. Hell, I've been a PC user almost my entire life... That's enough of my yapping.

[Buckshot]

Hi Stretch, no opposition to the idea as far as we are concerned, will just be a matter of how difficult it is to do.

Obviously the focus is going to be on PC without compromise, if a mac port is possible at that point, I don't see any reason why we wouldn't look at it.

[Guns]

:D I fly Falcon on both platforms and find that I like each. Plenty of pro's for the PC side and the Mac as well. I know that there are plenty of Mac pilots that would like to see a version of Fighter Ops for the Mac. I have one question; will I be able to use my Voodoo 5 5500 for the PC version? I really feel that they are still the best cards to come along.

[IxianMace]

Making the game available to Mac users should increase the number of people the game is available to. I don't see why there should be a problem here. Perhaps there are lots of 'no' votes because people are afraid that the release of the game will be delayed by the development of a Mac version? ?_?

[Eluzion]

It's not just about macs either. Going the OpenGL route would also open up doors to linux and unix distributions. Personally, I use FreeBSD when I don't need Windows. :)

[Pooga]

I would love a Mac version of this. Falcon 4.0 is still awesome, but we always welcome a new flight sim when it comes around.

Please make Fighter Ops available for the Mac.

[Bean]

Well the other thing is macs are becoming much more powerful than they used to be. Wait till q4 this year when we have our dual 3ghz g5! :drink: It would make a nice platform to show off the power of this game. You wouldn't even need to directly develop for the mac. As Long as the framework of the game is relatively cross platform. Mac users are used to waiting for our games, as mentioned, HALO. Which was a few months from release till MS bought Bungie.

OH and i forgot one thing.... Mac people are incredibly religious when it comes to software. try it... just say XP is better than OSX. Getting mac people behind you would be like having a bunch of rabid dogs ready to be let loose on competition.

[TAGdesign]

Greetings everyone! Great to see some progress.

Falcon dying (again) is very sad for me since I first played the original version on a Mac SE30...on B/W!! I played Falcon AT on my roomate's IBM AT computer around '88 and bought Falcon 3.0 a year before I bought my first PC. and then on to Falcon 4 on PC then Mac. I gave up on all the other flight sims since they could not compare to F4. So I have lots of time playing and loving Falcon. But I am willing to move on if Falcon's owners are being jerks.

As a graphic designer, the Mac is my chosen platform for work and play.

I would be first in line to order the Mac version, even a few weeks or months after the PC debut. I agree that FO should kick some butt.

We all are devoted to the Flight sims.... More participants is better... no matter what platform.

Please give us Fighter Ops:Mac!!! Please!!! do you need a CC#? :D

TAGdesign

[Zimluura]

i mentioned the ogre engine in the graphic engine thread, but i've personally used SDL to make a cross platform (win32-vc6, linux-gcc) opengl game engine. and highly recomend it if more that one platform is in the cards.

if you use sdl (http://www.libsdl.org/) you can make the stuff multiplatform from the ground up (so no ports). the biggest gripe comes in getting the compilers to speak the same c. the only restrictions i can think of would be that you'd have to use opengl and that console ports wouldn't be able to use it.

just for the record, i'm just trying to make suggestions, and don't consider myself part of any specific os fanatic crowds.

[Pappie]

Well I for one will only fly a PC, but I vote for open GL. Quake is GL, here is a reason the new Doom 3 is open GL and it's graphics are suppose to raise the bar.

[Fourth Horseman]

I would definitely buy a version for MacOS X. Chalk up my "yes" vote! :thumbsup:

EDIT: Oh yeah, and support for 1920x1200 video resolution so that I can play it on my 23" HD Cinema Display would be great. :wink:

[Haste]

I would love to see a Mac version. OSX is so stable now it would be great to see a great flight sim available to utilize it. :thumbsup:

[MaartenB56]

So how many fighter sims are there for Mac, anyway?
Porting has become easier, and the market is not overcrowded.
Mac users are a critical bunch, but very loyal (at least if you make good stuff)
M

[ATF22Ti]

If a mac version was made, i'd be eternally grateful to the programmers.

I'm sure many other mac users would be happy as well because it has been such a long time since a good flight sim was made for the mac (falcon 4.0).

All there is to look forward to is Grpahic Sims OIF. Please have mercy on our humble souls!

[WSTE_M]

Hi!

I second the idea of a mac version.

You must concider that there are virtually no flight sims on the mac market.
So if Fighter Ops was ported to the mac, it would have a lot bigger impact than it would have on the Windows platform.

A mac version is also a lot easier than it used to be, now with OpenGL and the BSD/UNI* underprints!

C'mon, throw us a bone! ;)

[bobmcgough]

I would buy a Mac version of Fighter Ops in a nanosecond.

Bobmac

[Rooakh]

Guys don't hold you breath. I've owned a Macintosh since 2000. I've been disapointed only by the fact that there are currently no modern hardcore combat flight simulations made for it.

Like most of you hardcore simmers, I want and need more fidelity and continued development then the Mac community can offer right now. This revolution is taking place in the PC community.

Anyways, aren't you guys tired of looking over at the PC community and seeing all these quality flight sims being developed, hoping and wishing one day they will come to the Mac? Well, I am. That's why I've made the decision to use the Mac platform for everything except flight sims.

I'm not a programer, so I don't claim to know what platform is best for this game, but I do have this question: Would writing the code in Unix make it easier to port it to OSX, Linux, and XP?

[StretchG5]

My two cents says maybe. Writing it in Linux would force the programmers to use open standards like OpenGL and OpenAL, and code written with these libraries is much easier to port than code written with DirectX or other Windows-only libraries.

However, assuming all libraries are equal, the vast bulk of porting work is in OS-specific things like file management, user interface stuff, and stuff like that, which will take time and effort no matter what platform you do it on.

But correct me if I'm wrong.

[Vlerkies]

If it gets onto Mac that would be great, for the user base. I i remember correctly i saw one copy of Falcon 4 for Mac on amazon.com

Don't know if it's still there, saw it a long time ago

:drink: :drink: :drink:


:military:

~S~

[spyro23]

I say that:
I don't have Mac and in my country almost everyone who have computer have PC.
I understand that there are many, many people in the world who want play FO in Mac so if you can- do it.
But one condition- PC version can't NOTHING lose :thumbsup:

[Vlerkies]

I'm sure the PC version won't lose anything Spyro

:drink:


:military:

~S~

[Bladehawk]

And don´t forget the NINTENDO version too :-p :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Vlerkies]

I would buy you alot of drinks Bladehawk, but the bar said that after the amount that we drink a day they are out of stock and only have a few brewskies left, here they are :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink:



:military:


~S~

[Allen]

I changed my mind! I was wrong to vote NO!

Well, maybe I was wrong :)

I voted no because Macs make up less than 2 percent of the desktops and even fewer Mac users could seriously expect a flight simulator for the Mac. So, I thought increasing sales by a percent or so would not even justify one week of effort -- and I know it would take much longer.

However, if FighterOps did work on the Mac, it would be, by far, the best flight simulator for the Mac. And, there is only one other current Mac flight sim I know about (XPlane -- I own the current PC version).

On that basis, maybe every Mac owner with any inclination to own a flight sim would buy FighterOps.

Since FighterOps is a niche product, only a under one percent of the PC market will be buying it -- getting nearly all the Mac market might double sales -- that's worth thinking about when the time comes :)

[macracer]

I too would love to see a Mac version.

There's a wonderful statement in the features section of your site that talks of the community. I would like to say that although the Mac flight sim users may be small, they are a very dedicated part of that community. I'm resonably sure that you would find an overwhelming number of guys ready to "jump in and get their hands dirty", to help this become a reality.

Mike

[Bladehawk]

Ok my answer is YES and NO

NO IF
My biggest concern is the fact of the team must do the double of work for the two platforms, and "dividing by two" their attention in FO development.
Imagine the developers finishing the first phase of FO to PC, and instead of starting the development of the second phase to they must start the first phase of development to MAC.

Yes if the PC version doesn´t suffer any of the above, so I will not Vote because if I must chose one the tree I chose NO.

[StretchG5]

Yes if the PC version doesn´t suffer any of the above, so I will not Vote because if I must chose one the tree I chose NO.

Then you're going to have to choose NO -- whether it be time, money, or both, making a Mac version will obviously consume resources. Mac versions don't just "appear out of thin air," obviously it requires work and money to port it, which could otherwise go into making the PC version better.

It's a cost-benefit analysis thing: Holding off making the PC version better in favor of affording Mac users a copy gives G2i a new market, which may seem small (but given the niche status of this game, is actually noteworthy), and also consists of more loyal gamers (starve a dog and give it scraps to see what I'm talking about).

Plus, it lets us have a half-decent modern military flight sim -- Falcon 4 is still at 1.06 on the Mac and still has all those crazy bugs you guys said goodbye to long ago, and despite all that it's STILL the best modern military flight sim you can get for Mac, which is pretty sad.

[Bladehawk]

Well I Voted ...

I think to many time has been wasted already on "OIR Gate" and "Atari Gate", I think its time to move along FAST and PERFECT (a difficult combination...).
And like you said "making a Mac version will obviously consume resources."
I think all resources must be with the primary target (the PC).

Don´t get me wrong I like MAC a lot. but see this example :
I was a fan of console games and some of the best games never come to PC so... I save money until I could buy a PS2 , now I have the best of both worlds.Recently I have ugraded my graphics card, to have better resolution, and frame rate. Imagine all the PS2 Fans " Hey give us a PS2 version of FO !!!"
Naaa... sorry... time for you guys start saving money for a PC.

[Hedgehog]

I switched to mac and I hope I will find someday FOPS on that platform.

I can't understand the discussion about resource problems: look at X-Plane! It runs on all platforms (mac, linux & win). ... and at the iPhone...

(sorry for re-opening that old post, but this discussion seems important to me ;-)

[Mugatu]

Definite yes, set up a sub team to do the port in the background, especially with OpenCL built into the core of Leopard.

http://x-plane.com/weapon.html

[BHawthorne]

Not to knock the idea, but whenever I see polls of this kind a certain lack of reality sets in. Developers have a target goal of feature-set and quality control they set when designing a project. When you inject a second client into the development schedule it gets exponentially more difficult.

The developer needs to account for code-base developing, bug squishing and maintenance/updates. Add to that customer service, documentation and the time for each part of this equation. By adding a Mac client, you take a personal wish and instantly add thousands of man-hours to the development of the title. Do you believe that makes sense to do with Fighter Ops? There is a finite pool of time, developers and money involved in a pet project like FO. Adding in Macintosh to the equation you, in many cases, double the initial figure. Also, the Macintosh user just has to spend 30 seconds to load into Bootcamp and play the game on the Windows side of his hardware to solve his problem. Keep in mind, this argument made 1000x more sense back in the days when Macs were not x86 based and code compatible with Windows. Which makes more sense, your 30 second inconvenience to reboot, or XSi's countless hours of double work to achieve the goal of a Mac client? Please do the math rationally. Mac users should just be happy that their hardware is now x86 based and take the consideration to reboot into the OS that allows them to even play the game instead of forcing a serious cost on a developer because of their minor inconvenience.

I'd much rather XSi concentrate a 100% of their resources towards a single client goal with higher quality control than a fractured developmental goal of spending 70% Win, 30% Mac development and compromise the development time schedule and feature set to attain such a situation of parity. Frankly, it makes more sense for third party develoeprs like Cedega to worry about making it work with thier setup on linux. This should not be XSi's problem. Let the third party devs come to a resolution for other platform compatability that doesn't effect the single client codebase. Please don't add 1 to 2 more years to FO development just because you want a Mac version.

...and yes, I'm a Mac user.

[Emohawk]

I guess we all have our views on what platform FO should be available for. Personally I'd prefer Linux, but BHawthorne have a few valid points. Debugging, testing and documenting e.t.c. would take far too much time. AFAIK FO only supports DirectX, with DX10 as a target? Further more, this technology is not supported by Mac nor Linux.

If you wanted to create a crossplatfrom flightsimulator, you had to start with OpenGL supprt from the very beginning instead of DirectX I guess.

[BHawthorne]

I guess we all have our views on what platform FO should be available for. Personally I'd prefer Linux, but BHawthorne have a few valid points. Debugging, testing and documenting e.t.c. would take far too much time. AFAIK FO only supports DirectX, with DX10 as a target? Further more, this technology is not supported by Mac nor Linux.

If you wanted to create a crossplatfrom flightsimulator, you had to start with OpenGL supprt from the very beginning instead of DirectX I guess.

I would suspect that FO will work in Cedega on Linux at some point in the future. IMHO, that is Cedega dev's problem and not XSi's to work out though. :wink2:

[Mugatu]

Naa, the best way to is to recruit separate teams to do the port on the side. That doesn't affect the mainline branch, just like GCC etc etc etc. It's got nothing to do with Cedega/Apple etc. For a FO to work well on a platform it has to be done at the software level, not through Wine or whatever. No body will want to fly it at 1FPS.

There are tools to port Directx to OpenGL available from ATI I believe.

[BHawthorne]

Naa, the best way to is to recruit separate teams to do the port on the side. That doesn't affect the mainline branch, just like GCC etc etc etc. It's got nothing to do with Cedega/Apple etc. For a FO to work well on a platform it has to be done at the software level, not through Wine or whatever. No body will want to fly it at 1FPS.

There are tools to port Directx to OpenGL available from ATI I believe.


Plausible, but that Mac team would have a lot of work cut out for it to make sure it's maintains complete compatibility with the win version and they maintain a consistent quality of service in line with the windows client. Maintaining parity with the Windows client is easier said than done. I'd really not recommend it unless that team can guarantee real-time compatibility with the windows version and offer good technical support for it at the same time. Otherwise you'll get into a situation where it could bring a bad reputation to the sim because of delay in feature matching, compatability and support.

Either do it right, or don't do it at all. Reguardless, even with a team solely commited to Mac there will be resource drain from the windows side to keep communications on the level needed to make sure it's done right.

[Sherlock]

Plausible, but that Mac team would have a lot of work cut out for it to make sure it's maintains complete compatibility with the win version and they maintain a consistent quality of service in line with the windows client. Maintaining parity with the Windows client is easier said than done. I'd really not recommend it unless that team can guarantee real-time compatibility with the windows version and offer good technical support for it at the same time. Otherwise you'll get into a situation where it could bring a bad reputation to the sim because of delay in feature matching, compatability and support.

Either do it right, or don't do it at all. Reguardless, even with a team solely commited to Mac there will be resource drain from the windows side to keep communications on the level needed to make sure it's done right.


I'm in total agreement. Don't do it if it will impact the win version in any way. There is too much at stake.

[Hedgehog]

I'm wondering why everyone tends to argue about the impossibilities...

Again, look at X-Plane and ask why it works there.

And finally: its just a wish-list. Noone (at Fops) cares about that.

Greets

[BHawthorne]

I'm wondering why everyone tends to argue about the impossibilities...

Again, look at X-Plane and ask why it works there.

And finally: its just a wish-list. Noone (at Fops) cares about that.

Greets

I don't argue that it's impossable. I argue that it's potentially timeline-to-release derailing. A MacOS X version is plausible. I just don't see it as a smart move. When FO gains traction after release maybe a MacOS X teams could be formed to keep parity then. My motivation for posting my opinion is I don't want to see impediments compounded in Fighter Ops development. They've got enough already on thier plates. I realize many people's wishes about this and feel there is some merit in the wish. I just don't see it as a good move towards getting FO done in a timely manner.

Why X-Plane works? It's because it's OpenGL based...even then it's gotta be a lot of work to keep the codebase standard between the platforms. As far as I know, FO is DirectX core which makes cross-platform options a big issue. Once XSi went down the road of DirectX, it's going to take reinventing the wheel to get it working the same on MacOS X with all the things available in DirectX they use. Transgaming Cider might be an option, but just how complete is it's cross-platform directx capability? I simply don't want to see them adding Cider into the workflow if it takes them 6+ months to muttle though getting it integrated. That's 6 months we could have with the sim in our hands while they're further refining it post-release.