If it's a Q4 2004 release....

[JohnnyChemo]

Then there has to be a substantial amount of work already done. Would anyone be able to say what the current state of the project is?
If there isn't much work already done, then is the Q4 2004 target reasonable/rational?

[Solo]

Then there has to be a substantial amount of work already done. Would anyone be able to say what the current state of the project is?
If there isn't much work already done, then is the Q4 2004 target reasonable/rational?

I think you will find that the answer to that question will be "wait and see".

At the moment we can speculate till the cows come home but it seems that there is a commitment to tell us more in the very near future.

Anyway, lets speculate for a moment :D . G2i have a new partner. We don't know much about them at the moment, but one would guess that whoever it is has something that G2i are confident of working with to be willing to commit to a Q4 2004 release date...

Sounds promising to me - with everything that has happened over the last year or so I don't think G2i would willingly risk their credibility (and more) again... that would just be plain dumb!

Solo

[JohnnyChemo]

[quote=JohnnyChemo]
Anyway, lets speculate for a moment :D . G2i have a new partner. We don't know much about them at the moment, but one would guess that whoever it is has something that G2i are confident of working with to be willing to commit to a Q4 2004 release date...

Sounds promising to me - with everything that has happened over the last year or so I don't think G2i would willingly risk their credibility (and more) again... that would just be plain dumb!

Solo

Speculation is all we have at the moment. Here's mine: G2I has spent tha last 2-3 years messing with the Falcon code. In that time, they should have been able to write a significant amount of new code based on the Falcon base. From what has been said publicly, OIR featured many modules (ie improvements made byu eRazor and the UT) of the original code practically rewritten. They have said Atari wanted G2I's code, and that is why they bailed on Atari.

That should leave G2I with a pile of their original code, but lacking elements that would have been from the 1.08 code. Are they going to take the code they currently have produced, create what they would have needed from the 1.08 code, and produce this new sim? That is the only way I can see them hitting a Q4 2004 target date. No screenshots available yet because some crucial elements are missing, but much of the code could already be written.

Anyone in the know want to confirm/deny/confuse/muddle things up a bit for us?

[Ace]

Anyone in the know signed an NDA and can't say a thing. Sorry pal, but its gonna be a "wait and see" :)

Ace

[Jaker]

At first, the most famous sentence was "3-4 weeks". Will be now "Wait and see"? :mrgreen:

[Balu]

If the product is well tested and ready developed I´ll be glad to wait. The desaster of Ubisoft with Lock On with an unfinished product besides the christmas sales without a handbook should not happen again.

with regards
Balu

[Prowler]

I agree, we are tired of half-finished projects. Release it when it's ready! :thumbsup:

[195th_Seawolf]

I say dont say Jack until it goes Gold.
I'm sick of sifting through post after post of "When will it be out?"
If your not smart enough to figure out how things work by now then too freakin bad.

Certain folks scream now now now! and then when it gets released "Now" it ends up broken and the same folks start screaming foul.
Save yourself the trouble guys and just finish whatever it is and be done with it.

[JohnnyChemo]

Too late,the proverbial cat is out of the bag.
Too bad it couldn't have been kept silent until it went gold, or at least until they were were working on RC's. Then they could at least post screenshots and movies etc. to generate buzz and feed the communitiy's hunger.

[Charlie_VFP]

Keeping software in the dark until Gold Code is a very bad idea in a marketting sense. While some may think that doesnt matter, marketting plays as huge an impact on software titles as the actual software itself.

But then releasing dates can bite them on the butt as well. Take a look at the Lock On fall out for Matt and Carl. That was a huge disaster, but not their fault directly.

So, you can either not release dates and have people mad at you or you can release dates and have people mad at you because they do not understand the concept behind "set backs".

I am just happy to see that someone is trying to put out a top of the line sim. There have been to many let downs in the last 5 years in the sim community.

[JohnnyChemo]

Keeping software in the dark until Gold Code is a very bad idea in a marketting sense. While some may think that doesnt matter, marketting plays as huge an impact on software titles as the actual software itself.

But then releasing dates can bite them on the butt as well. Take a look at the Lock On fall out for Matt and Carl. That was a huge disaster, but not their fault directly.

So, you can either not release dates and have people mad at you or you can release dates and have people mad at you because they do not understand the concept behind "set backs".

I am just happy to see that someone is trying to put out a top of the line sim. There have been to many let downs in the last 5 years in the sim community.

I can see that, but given the history of G2I and Falcon, perhaps discretion would have been the better part of valor in this instance. COnsidering the promises made in the recent past, these new promises take on an almost immediate air of vaporware to me. Better to have held off and gone into a hole until there was enough progress to show something - a beta preview, some screenies, even concept art.

All we have right now is words from a company who have said a lot of things in the past and failed to deliver.

[Stormin]

Why is it that everyone uses the word "promise"? None of this is a personal contract between consumer and publisher until you put your money on the table.

I don't make promises, ever. Things change in software development and publishing. Things that are beyond the control of those that are working on a particular title. It is because many users expect and demand promises that those of us in the industry have our "deflector shields" up all the time.

If a business decision is made that changes when or how a product is going to be released then it is a change in plans. There is no break of a promise. When a release date is moved because a product needs more testing there is no break in a promise, it is a decision made for the best interests of all involved.

Take the word promise out of your software development and publishing vocabulary. Use the words "intention" and "commitment" instead.

Making and publishing these products is difficult work and it is often filled with setbacks and disappointments. I always try to focus on the positives rather than the negatives.

Carl

[16 162 Raven]

What he said. great post stormin :thumbsup:

[Sobriquet]

I do not understand the personal affront some people feel when a piece of software is delayed. It boggles the mind.

I have never known there to be a blood oath between a potential consumer and a developer. Yet some people go ape shiit when a project, a friggin piece fo computer code is delayed or cancelled.

Priorities people, priorities. :roll:

[Spitfire]

Disappointment in delays in this community arriv from one thing.....the simple fact that we are adrenalin junkies that get high on flying. :drink:

As far as a Q4 2004 release.....when it gets here we will know.....but then remember, it will only be 3 or 4 weeks...

[JohnnyChemo]

Why is it that everyone uses the word "promise"? None of this is a personal contract between consumer and publisher until you put your money on the table.

I don't make promises, ever. Things change in software development and publishing. Things that are beyond the control of those that are working on a particular title. It is because many users expect and demand promises that those of us in the industry have our "deflector shields" up all the time.

If a business decision is made that changes when or how a product is going to be released then it is a change in plans. There is no break of a promise. When a release date is moved because a product needs more testing there is no break in a promise, it is a decision made for the best interests of all involved.

Take the word promise out of your software development and publishing vocabulary. Use the words "intention" and "commitment" instead.

Making and publishing these products is difficult work and it is often filled with setbacks and disappointments. I always try to focus on the positives rather than the negatives.

Carl

No offense, Carl, but I my remarks were more centered on G2I's credibility and public relations (or lack thereof) and not you, Ubisoft, or ED.

Personally, I followed the Lomac development on and off until the demo was released, after which I watched much more closely. I've been having a ball flying Lomac, kudos to you and your team. It is a fun sim, and that is the nature of your business - creating things for others enjoyment. You've achieved that with me.

Unfortunately, G2I has led the community through years of misinformation, deceit; and threats based on hearsay and conjecture. They have taken and spent the currency of goodwill from the community which would not only be their customer base but the standard bearers of what could have been a very good product. No matter what business you are in, if you piss off your base, you slit your throat.

I hope they pull it off, but my skepticism and cynicism remains. Meanwhile I've got a Hog loaded with mavericks and a column of T-80's through a mountain pass - looks like a good night for some pop up attacks in Lomac!

[JohnnyChemo]

I do not understand the personal affront some people feel when a piece of software is delayed. It boggles the mind.

I have never known there to be a blood oath between a potential consumer and a developer. Yet some people go ape shiit when a project, a friggin piece fo computer code is delayed or cancelled.

Priorities people, priorities. :roll:

It's all relative. Do you have a favorites sports team? Does it piss you off when they have a crappy season or play poorly? Have you ever yelled at the TV because the ref can't see a foul right in front of his face, or a player blows an assignment? What is wrong taking an interest in something?

There are people in this community from all walks of life who have a common interest - military flight simulators. If you don't share interest, why are you here? If you don't share the same level of interest, fine, but don't give me crap because I've voiced my opinion.

MY priorities are sound asleep two floors above me. This is my free time, and I am very jealous of how it gets used. If someone strings me along telling me they've got the next best thing coming down the pipe, and keep feeding me previews and dropping little "wait til you see" statements and really grab my interest, and then pull the rug out from under me, then I think I am more than justified in venting some steam.

[Katz]

I do not understand the personal affront some people feel when a piece of software is delayed. It boggles the mind.

I have never known there to be a blood oath between a potential consumer and a developer. Yet some people go ape shiit when a project, a friggin piece fo computer code is delayed or cancelled.

Priorities people, priorities. :roll:

It's all relative. Do you have a favorites sports team? Does it piss you off when they have a crappy season or play poorly? Have you ever yelled at the TV because the ref can't see a foul right in front of his face, or a player blows an assignment? What is wrong taking an interest in something?

There are people in this community from all walks of life who have a common interest - military flight simulators. If you don't share interest, why are you here? If you don't share the same level of interest, fine, but don't give me crap because I've voiced my opinion.

MY priorities are sound asleep two floors above me. This is my free time, and I am very jealous of how it gets used. If someone strings me along telling me they've got the next best thing coming down the pipe, and keep feeding me previews and dropping little "wait til you see" statements and really grab my interest, and then pull the rug out from under me, then I think I am more than justified in venting some steam.
not on this forum your not justified, if you want to complain and vent take it somewhere else as i wont put up with it here

[BlackSWAN]

It seems simple enough to me....

Somebody went through the trouble to set up this website.

They then made some claims.

If their claims are true, then it's involved some very hard work.

The LEAST we can do is have the courtesy to wait and see.

The BEST we could do is offer our suggestions as to what we believe
would make this the most UNBELIEVABLE sim there ever was.

The WORST we can do is B#tch before they've even had a chance.

And of course....if you think you can do better...I'd expect you
to be given a chance too!

As for me....well we have a pretty unbelievable sim right now.
I'm hoping the next one is UNBELIEVABLY UNBELIEVABLE!

[Loki]

The WORST we can do is B#tch before they've even had a chance.

I think JohnnyChemo was trying to make the point that they have had a chance, and in his eyes they blew it. Some might say that's a fair comment. I might be one of them. But then, I'm more than willing to wait and see what happens. Whether FO arrives in two quarters time or two years time doesn't matter as long as it's done right. I'd just hate to see it never arrive, not for the sake of G2i's reputation, but for the sake of a hungry community who are always on the lookout for a quality product.

L
-

[ufo_hk]

Keeping software in the dark until Gold Code is a very bad idea in a marketting sense.

As a product marketer/developer, I see this statement as being far from correct. Wheather you want to or need to tell your intended market is very much dependent upon the circumstances at the time. If the market I'm working in at the time has heaps of competition with other suppliers with bigger resources that I have, I won't want them to know what I'm doing and steal a march on me by duplicating any likely features which give my product a market lead. I might however release it to key accounts which are likely to be targets if the threat was real enough.

However if the product I had was unlikely to suffer from major competition I might be interested in stirring up more market share by getting the word out early. However the information that would be released would be very carefully considered, as has already been seen numerous times. Setting expectations which don't get met can have major impacts on a products reputation and hence market uptake. I.e. not meeting features or deadline expectations in the case of flight sims seem to have major impacts on the acceptance of a product by the sim market.

I would suggest each situation is unique and what and when information is released is part of the juggling a product manager needs to do in their marketing.

[Vlerkies]

Once again well said ufo

:drink: have a couple on me if my credit card isn't already in the red :lol:


:military:

~S~