The community's role in this new project?

[195th_Seawolf]

I will try to ask the readers digest version of this question so hang with me for a sec.
How much "input" will the community have in this project from it's initial birth to it's release? I am not talking open source or mods, but instead how much feedback will the community have on what type of aircraft are modelled, what area of operation is used (theatre), multiplayer features, design features in general?
Many times a Dev team decides on a certain feature list and starts to build and the community has little say until its too late and the sim is gone to Alpha. Can the community have a say by way of voting,etc as to what we want in the sim and how we want it??
I realize it might be way to early for this, but at some point these decisions have to be made if anything is to happen and I for one would really like to see the community have a bigger voice from the start of something like this.
All the best and good luck.

[smangs]

Many times a Dev team decides on a certain feature list and starts to build and the community has little say until its too late and the sim is gone to Alpha.

Well, according to their business model, we should have considerable influence on the project but as always we will just have to wait and see.

Sascha "Conan" Mangs

[Golf33]

Well, the usual way this works is that the people who have put money into a project have a fair amount of control over it; the people who are working on it have a little bit less; and the people who are doing neither, don't have any control at all. This is a good thing since the more you risk on a venture, the more control you should have. OTOH if you aren't risking anything, you can't really ask for control:)

The developers are of course well advised to listen to community suggestions - we get lots of good ideas that way where I work - but the final decision on what gets put in depends on lots of factors the community will never be aware of. In fact most of those factors, the community wouldn't even care about, but they are still critical for the developer who stands to lose everything if the project goes wrong.

Regards
33

[Charlie_VFP]

The other side to this is that a great deal of the time, ideas in the community are unrealistic or not thought out fully. Not only that, but for every idea one person has, another person thinks it is a horrible idea.

It is very hard for a development company, or any company for that matter, to make everyone happy. Especially when some ideas would cost much more in time and resources to complete than it would be benificial to the community.

But, you are right in the regard that dev's should at least entertain the idea's of the community and make the best decisions possible in whether to include certain aspects.

[195th_Seawolf]

Well perhaps when the time comes to make a decision on those key features the Devs should let the community vote as a whole on what they want. Things like the aircraft chosen could be voted on by the community or the theatre of operations, etc.

[jhook]

Iv'e stated this several times, but I think another thread will do. It would depend on the way the data platform (the graphical to game platform) is created and weather it can be adjusted as time goes by. We, as a community, don't need to know what the data platform is, all we need to know is that it can be continuosly upgraded as time goes on. If this is so, then Fighter Ops can be improved to any level, ANY!, even a world wide theater. Once they crack open the door by stating that, then I have one heck-of-wish-list! If Fighter Ops will use Falcon data edits, then there will be little room for improved graphics and game play

[Vlerkies]

. If this is so, then Fighter Ops can be improved to any level, ANY!, even a world wide theater. Once they crack open the door by stating that, then I have one heck-of-wish-list!


I think it will be a world theatre as they are modelling the entire spherical world as stated on the news on the front page :wink:

:military:
~S~

[Bladehawk]

To me the role of the community is simple. Without the community there is no chance of a real sucess to FO !

I dare to ask...
What is the importance that G2I+GenAv will give to the voice of the community ?
Or is this "forum" like "others" before just to keep the community hooked with the false sense of that "our voice matters..." or in a false hope that our suggestions will be implemented...

8)

[jhook]

A glogal platform by Q4?, I don't think so. But as now stated by the FAQ, a demo and a few pre packaged missions will be completed by Q4. But if the codes use adaptive intergration commands in the data edits, then as time goes on, everything could be possible. Forgive me, my face is turning blue from holding my breath soo long. As for Gen Av, anyone got a clue? I think they are an airline simulator company, but I'm guessing at that one. I think I saw something on Discover Wings channel a month or so ago about this company. Any thoughts? Jhook

[Vlerkies]

Nothing mate, won't be able to help out in that section


:military:

~S~

[Charlie_VFP]

This was gone over a million times on the Lock On forums prior to its release.... The few hundred of us sitting on this forum do not even make up 3% of the user base that any computer program will attract once it is released.

So to even say that there should be a poll here is a bit incorrect if your looking for the "community" idea. All of this is done externally through market research and other facets of business handling. Yes, there is actually a whole profession, and college degrees, that focus just on market research.

[Vlerkies]

Yeah there is a profession like that, might i add that you pay your lilly's behind off to study it here in South Africa :mrgreen:


:military:
~S~

[Charlie_VFP]

I do not know how much that costs, but I am sure it is a pretty high figure from the way you say it! :D

[Vlerkies]

:D my mate is busy studying for it, and though he didn't tell me exactly how much it costs yet. He said that it's almost as much as his annual salary,:shock: and i presume that is alot


:military:
~S~

[Juggernaut]

Hi Terry,

Well Fighter Ops will be quite different from LOMAC.

First, LOMAC was made and produced as a GAME - made and sold to make money as the ultimate goal - of course it was also designed to appeal to a niche consumer and they did a great job of it too).

From what I can tell the goal of Fighter Ops is to treat flight simming as a HOBBY - made and sold to fullfill the wants and desires of the community of hobbyists.

Sims simply cannot survive in todays market if they are treated as a game because the end result is that sims are not worth the time and effort and money that they cost to make when one looks at the return they get for sales.
-I won't pay much more than $40 for a game that I know will eventually go unsupported (if not right from the start), but I would be willing to spend $50 to $100 (or perhaps even more) for a simulator that was supported as a hobby by the community and by the company that produced it.
-I spent $20 for F4 in 1999 - 5 years later I am still flying it because the community turned it into a hobby rather than a game. I don't know, do the calculations...it must be less than 1 cent per day...
-For this hobby I would have paid alot more money and still been satisfied.

If FighterOps is run well, I suppose it will basically work in such a way that the community and G2i will work together to direct the simulator in a way such that the community can give suggestions and even directly contribute to the simulation as a hobby (and potential business venture), and as such would have no limits to the direction or depth that the simulation is taken. Say G2i doesn't have a start-up sequence yet for a particular jet...go ahead and contact them...become a part of the team and help out - it is your sim - it is your community - take it where you want it to go - if you are part of the team, then it sounds like you would even get compensated for your work.

Of course G2i wants to make money off of this so they can survive - but the goal (from what I can tell) is to make this simulation an organized hobby that people can enjoy and grow with and contribute to for many, many years to come.

Ok...I'll get off my soapbox now...I how you understand my point.

Talk to you later!
Juggernaut

This was gone over a million times on the Lock On forums prior to its release.... The few hundred of us sitting on this forum do not even make up 3% of the user base that any computer program will attract once it is released.

So to even say that there should be a poll here is a bit incorrect if your looking for the "community" idea. All of this is done externally through market research and other facets of business handling. Yes, there is actually a whole profession, and college degrees, that focus just on market research.

[Charlie_VFP]

Hey Juggernaut,

Thanks for the reply. And your logic is very sound and I cant help but agree with you.

The idea of what Lock On was to be and what it actually ended up being are two different things entirely. But I would classify that as a game. I would also classify F4 as a game and a sim. While it has the realism and ability to be a sim, I am sure there are thousands out there who play it simply for the game.

But, you are right when you say that F4 and hopefully FO will be a hobby for many. I know that we look forward to it for that very reason. Based on F4's reputation, I have confidence in FO to actually be that sim and not be less than what it was originally said to have been.

We have contacted and are talking with G2I now. I'm a little ahead of you on that one. :-p

No soapbox there. You are correct in your post imo.

My point was simply that this forum does not even come close to making up the entire "community" of F4 and FO. That was all.

[Stuntie]

I think the fact that a lot of the people you see here are long term sim fans will have a lot of impact.

These are people who can't be fooled by a floppy flight model and uber-weapons. They know there stuff. And whilst trying to please them may be like jumping into a pool full of pirahnas at times, if you can get to the other side though them you'll know your on to a winner.

[Juggernaut]

Hi Terry,

Good points.

I am glad to see that you are planning to help contribute.

That is great!

Juggernaut

Hey Juggernaut,

Thanks for the reply. And your logic is very sound and I cant help but agree with you.

The idea of what Lock On was to be and what it actually ended up being are two different things entirely. But I would classify that as a game. I would also classify F4 as a game and a sim. While it has the realism and ability to be a sim, I am sure there are thousands out there who play it simply for the game.

But, you are right when you say that F4 and hopefully FO will be a hobby for many. I know that we look forward to it for that very reason. Based on F4's reputation, I have confidence in FO to actually be that sim and not be less than what it was originally said to have been.

We have contacted and are talking with G2I now. I'm a little ahead of you on that one. :-p

No soapbox there. You are correct in your post imo.

My point was simply that this forum does not even come close to making up the entire "community" of F4 and FO. That was all.

[jhook]

In my opinion, the communities roll is quite simple, "communicate and respond". We communicate through these forums to get a respose about what it will take to produce this flight sim. Some questions are off limits (NDA) and others I don't think have even been asked yet. Some of the responses have been less than constructive. I think we, as a community, must press on with the questions (nothing like pushing the envolope) and work constructively.

[FlyBoy01]

Jhook has a point. Constructive critique and useful injection of ideas will give G2i and the other developers more to work with than hyperbole and vitriol. If the other posts here are correct and this is to become a 'hobby' instead of a game, we need to conduct ourselves as hobbyists do, mutually supportive and information/idea sharing.
If you spend anytime in an FBO, all the pilots who hang around share information with one another with (usually) good natured ribbing but concern for their fellow pilots foremost. We have an opportunity to assist with the creation of something that could last us all many years and provide many many years of flight sim fun.

(Just my twopence) :)

[Vlerkies]

And a very good twopence at that FlyBoy. :thumbsup:

This is the kind of support the people need, and i hope it's contagious.

:drink: A cold one on me, waiting for you in the pilots bar


:military:

~S~