FO seems to have lost its community in some ways?

[Defender]

Hi guys, let me first say I'm not trying to say anything negative, just trying to be some what "constructive" or gain an understand on marketing over here. I've been checking into these forms once a week now if that and never really find ANYTHING...let alone any info on the progress of development. I'm sure AREA 51 has some info, but they seem to have ALL the info, not just special access...ALL, which seems a bit strange to me.

I would think there would be at least a tid bit of general information updates or even WIP shots released (possibly that have been released a year or 9 months ago in area 51). There seems to be less reason to show up here because the threads are by all means empty.

I was an area 51 member in 2009, personally I felt a little disappointed with my year, but it just so happened not much was released that year and I'm fine with that. I understand the course of development, but I just don't understand how you can generate MORE interest from this already TINY niche market by not providing ANY details to the general public.

That being said, I understand the area 51 higher class structure, but I would have figured they'd receive classified data, not general release/product data... I guess that's my misunderstanding.

Anyway I mean NO offence, how you conduct business is ultimately your decision and I will NOT hold it against you in any way. I was excited to discover the project two years ago, I was happy to have endorsed $25, not only information but for the cause in general.

I also know it's not really your requirement to uphold the confidence of your community, but for the majority of people who will never join area 51, there doesn't seem to be much to hold onto unfortunately. I think it's generally causing more contempt than anything with flight sim fans in general.

One individuals logic is another's farce so I don't expect myself and the operation to FULLY understand each other, but that's okay...things can be learned from open minds and general understanding.

All the best guys

[Triple111]

I agree. I visit the forums every single day and there haven't been any updates to the general community for MONTHS.


I'm sure AREA 51 has some info, but they seem to have ALL the info, not just special access

This is becoming increasingly true. There has been multiple releases of info to A51 from the past months, but NONE of it has been released to the public.

Is it really that difficult to get a few screenshots, even 3 or 4, and post them to the site? Its not like you have to do any serious work to get them. Just a small look into what progress has been made. The last screenshots posted were in 2009, and that was just ONE album of terrain screens that was already pretty much the same stuff shown before.

Something definately needs to be released soon, because these forums have become worse than ever over the past few years.

While there should be news being announced all the time, almost all of the threads on the homepage have nothing to do with FOps.

Please don't let this project die.

[Buckshot]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the posts, and the level headed manner in which they were written. To answer the questions, there is no marketing at this stage of the development, it's simply a matter of sharing information which is available. As you alluded to in your post, there are cycles in development which do tend to provide lulls in information. In the past we have shared much more, the result of that was to generate a lot of excitement which turned to anger the second we had such a lull, we also had the value of Area 51 being diluted. We have had many instances where work in progress material released on the general forum has been used completely out of context deliberately by certain individuals both here and on other forums to generate negativity towards the project.

For these reasons we have become more careful with what we share outside of Area 51. Within Area 51 we can much better control material released, and ensure that the viewer has a complete explanation of what they are viewing. For general public releases we have decided to wait until we have much more complete material which is able to stand on it's own without the need for explanations etc, as we know that this material will be spread without that explanation, or worse with completely misleading information as it has in the past.

We are certainly very conscious of the fact that the general forum has not had a lot of information for some time, and we discuss ways to deliver information here quite often. We definitely do have some material in the works to release here, but the priority is firmly on moving forward on development.

Marketing will come much later, and will be timed to be able to generate excitement in a continual stream up to the release date, so please do not confuse access to in development/behind the scenes information with marketing as they are two completely different things and I believe that this confusion is what leads to a lot of false expectations. What we are doing is trying to provide access into a new development from the ground up, and I believe we still do provide much more access than 99% of other developers in the market, particularly when you consider we are doing so while creating a brand new engine, it's not like we have an existing engine sitting here we can just throw a few models into and start a marketing campaign. In reality people should be considering all of this as a bonus, where there are some (and I'm not referring to these posts with this comment), who act like we are taking away their god given rights by not letting them see every byte of source code we have written.

We started this project with the goal of keeping the sim community in the loop as much as we could, we've been burned a number of times in the process, and have had to modify some policies as a result, but we still do hold this goal and we will still provide as much material and information, provided there is a sound reason and based on previous experiences that a risk-benefit analysis is satisfied. When we do move into a marketing type ramp-up towards the release of Fighter Ops, you will see a much more "conventional" flow of information, much like any other development forum.

[Defender]

Ahh great, thanks for the quick response Buckshot, that makes a lot more sense to me know. It is a fine line one walks in this market. I've noticed some developers post WIP pictures and state they're WIP VERY clearly yet individuals will comment on things (not the right colour this, that looks crappy) etc...and you see pages and pages of what's wrong with the picture what's the point of posting it.

There is no marketing yet, of course there isn't, not sure why I didn't really see that before. I guess myself and a few others were under the impression things were further along, but of course IP's are VERY sensitive subjects that need to be protected.

Thanks again, I can shift my expectations for this project now and continue to follow it closely one update at a time at this point :)

Great job you guys did on the round table Interview, I REALLY enjoyed reading that and it was nice to have you guys be apart of it. Gave the XSI project some "street cred" :thumb:.

[Triple111]

Thanks for clearing things up a bit. I sort of just realised you're not trying to "market" the sim right now, makes a lot more sense if you think about it that way. Hope everything is going well.

Still, it'd be nice to have maybe a small update here and there to make it seem like the project is still progressing, etc. Maybe just drop a few hints to what you are working on, nothing specific (so you can still have your A51), but maybe just say "Hey guys, we just finished up the UI and are starting to work on some more modelling, check out A51 for screenies"

Thanks for the calm response though :thumb:

[Buckshot]

Thanks guys, and again also thanks for the way you put your thoughts across. I've said it many times, but unfortunately not many get it, if someone has constructive criticism, I'm more than happy to discuss with them, it's only when people start throwing ridiculous accusations and insults that I don't remain calm :smile:

Anyhow, your points are well taken, believe me as I said earlier, we do regularly discuss how we can get more information to you guys, we have a management meeting in a few hours where I will be discussing this again. :smile:

[Triple111]

Good stuff Buckshot. Thats what I like to hear!

[SUBS17]

I'm still lurking about hopefully XSi finishes this awesome sim.

[Maple]

I'm still lurking about hopefully XSi finishes this awesome sim.

Thanks SUBS17!:red:

[Cali]

I'm still lurking about hopefully XSi finishes this awesome sim.

There are lots of us lurking around, waiting and watching in the shadows.

[Caddie87th]

Sammo, i've been silent for a while, but still hoping and supporting.

Grtz

[Deckerd]

There are lots of us lurking around, waiting and watching in the shadows.

jeez cali, that makes the lurking around sound pretty cool :thumb:

[A.S]

You can be sure that all those yalling vapoware, will be the first ones singing hymes about the same product, because they are ALL waiting for it, and those who are not, will probably understand what they were missing.
We have seen such things happening before, sometimes even withing the same product, but from patch to patch.
It is easy to turn away or to ridicule good ideas and projects, but it requires courage to support them not being sure what the endresult will be. The path matters.......goal is a byproduct.
It could also be that not everyone has understood or hasread between the lines, where the history of simulation is coming from, what has been made great and what has been missing in the past and where this new project is pointed at due to that fact.

I support this idea, the 4th year now and i will keep supporting it EVEN if you can fail.

Screw the trash, keep focus on what your dedication and motivation has been.

My 2 cents

[Foundre]

Screw the trash, keep focus on what your dedication and motivation has been.


I couldn't agree more. I have had my moments here, albeit I am generally sarcastic as it is, it is hard for outsiders to understand. I understand for a couple of reasons. I went to school for game art design and modeling and with no luck finding work I am back in school for game development and I have learned a lot about the process. But my main job I do marketing and artist relations for a drum company that is big...like some of my clients are bands that you see on TV and hear on the radio all the time. The majority of my day is spent with nay-sayers and whiners. I deal with a lot of burnt out musicians that have barely that ability to speak much less understand why and how we market. It is a tough balance but the key is mind the positive as well as the negative but always maintain the positive overtone.

It is important to put your neck out there and persevere despite the people tat intentionally try to ruin it because the tighter the bond in your game community the better the project will be and the longer it will last.

I am an industry professional at marketing and design and I can tell you from experience it needs work and if you ever need help I would be willing to do it for you. But with or without me it is important to remember that other than for your selves, the people in your community are the ones you are working for and they should respect you and you should respect them... LOL that is a tough balance.

[KC]

I'm still here, too. Even if don't do much, i'm sure this will takeoff some day and you can expect full support from my side...

[Defender]

Flight simmers are a fickle bunch that's for sure, we want everything NOW NOW NOW and we want it CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP (even though we've dropped $600 on hotas and upgrade computer components constantly). We complain when we do get said sim, no dynamic campaign, AI that "sucks", "I don't feel like i'm in a living breathing world" etc etc. We complain when we see WIP screenshots (Oleg's forums are the WORST, the ASSANINE comments I see in there regarding the...WORK IN PROGRESS images baffles the S**T out of me).

We often forget...the developers are the ones who are taking 100% OF THE RISK HERE to bring us content. They risk the hundreds of thousands of dollars in development, time, stress, politics and US to bring us entertainment that 98% of the other developers out there have forgotten.

Anyway the contempt could be a derivative of self protection. They got excited 4 years ago when they heard about the project, and just can't help waiting anymore so they detach themselves from it..the only way they know how...HATE heheh.

Real life gets in the way of my time to sim, so I don't mind waiting, especially for this type of project.

[*Merlin*]

<<<<waiting quietly :evils:

[Pegasus]

another silent one who waits and supports the project (well at least on his own way :) )...

[Multiviper]

<<<<waiting quietly

[tiger]

is there an alternative? i mean i have stopped waiting a long time ago or to be more specific by the years i see the things different ,i am older now fellows, anyway
i dont have the idea of fighterops in my head ,if ever will release it its ok maybe i ll buy it too
but the area 51 membership in my opinion is not so sincere move, even from marketing view

anyway enjoy the real life

[~*Panther*~]

<<<<waiting quietly :evils:


<<<<waiting quietly

Me 3

[BHawthorne]

I think really whether a person waits quietly, or is impatient is largely irrelevant. It'll be out when it's out. Having a personal stance that either is quietly patient or vocally defiant does nothing overall to effect the release plans on any game. All it does is either show that you're willing to make a public annoyance out of yourself or not. Really, it does noone any favors by being selfishly impatient. Overall FO is what it is. Productive feedback is an important element. The problem is making your feedback productive. If you can't bother to make it productive, I don't blame XSI for not bothering to take it with a grain of salt. :wink2:


Flight simmers are a fickle bunch that's for sure, we want everything NOW NOW NOW and we want it CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP (even though we've dropped $600 on hotas and upgrade computer components constantly).

This isn't something exclusive to sims. It's a pretty general mindset for most computer users. There is some mental process that occurs that allows tolerance of spending more on tangible goods than virtual goods. If it's an actual physical object that you can use people are simply more apt to spend money on it than something nebulous like software. It's a tough issue for any developer to deal with.

[Sun Stealer]

This isn't something exclusive to sims. It's a pretty general mindset for most computer users.

Most of the Human race for that matter.


Still around too, and with the same PC as when these forums started. :smile:

[-Apples-]

lost its community?? I'm surprised they even have a website still.. The year is 2011 FO will be outdated if it ever comes out, it will look like Falcon 3.0

[Cobra]

I just dont get your attitude Apples.

What have you lost by Figher Ops attempting to make a flight sim?

Now ask yourself what you may gain from it?

If it does come out and look like Falcon 3 then that will be the devs problem as they will have lost a pocket full of money. Mean while you can then just go back to playing all the other sims that you play right now.

So I ask again, why all the hostility to the devs and this project?

:confused:

[JohnTheLuck]

Bah, don't bother with these critisms. They will be the first to enjoy FO. In the meantime, some news or pictures make people happy!

JTL

[-Apples-]

I just dont get your attitude Apples.

What have you lost by Figher Ops attempting to make a flight sim?

Now ask yourself what you may gain from it?

If it does come out and look like Falcon 3 then that will be the devs problem as they will have lost a pocket full of money. Mean while you can then just go back to playing all the other sims that you play right now.

So I ask again, why all the hostility to the devs and this project?

:confused:

Since you ask. The reason is because in the beginning i payed 2 or 3 years for area 51 membership. With that membership They put up a Teamspeak Server were a developer at that time said A bunch of things that has never happend. Its 2011 now and i am not an area 51 member so i guess i don't know whats going on, but from the looks of things nothing has changed.

[Cobra]

The reason is because in the beginning i payed 2 or 3 years for area 51 membership

OK, you've put money in and havent seen a return on that yet. This is understandable and is making more sense as to your frustration. All i can say is it is still very much under development and your $25 discount for buying A51 membership will still be valid. You are just going to have to be a little more patient.

So i guess your options are:

1. Try and bad mouth the project and tear it down and hope it fails so you can say ... I told you so, or:

2. Support the project and ask questions if you are not sure of where the development is at in a mature manner and help make it a success so you can see a return on your investment.

You seem to have chosen option 1. which is what i just dont get. What positive could possibly come out of it?

:sad: