View Full Version : We're still skeptical.........
We're still skeptical, but you do have the website up, thats one small step in the right direction, can you do another ?
We're still skeptical, but you do have the website up, thats one small step in the right direction, can you do another ?
That's the plan jymp! :)
Patience.
Give them some time and let's see what becomes of this.
im just wondering how they can pull this off by the 4th quarter of this yr starting from nothing? Especially when its being marketed as a high fidelity simulator? I guess we will see what happens... BUt if they just started, i dont think theres a chance its gonna be released this year, if anythign not till after next summer. But that is my opinion.
Ender Wiggin
03-03-2004, 00:54
im just wondering how they can pull this off by the 4th quarter of this yr starting from nothing? Especially when its being marketed as a high fidelity simulator? I guess we will see what happens... BUt if they just started, i dont think theres a chance its gonna be released this year, if anythign not till after next summer. But that is my opinion.
just wait
fredm2002
03-03-2004, 00:55
Yeah the site is nice, but I have not found anything that G2i has finished...I hope I am wrong but I have followed Falcon OIR from a far and I am so disappointed that they tanked it....regardless of who failed the community.
I hope I am wrong but I will not beleive anything until I see a working demo then I will begin to be swayed. :roll:
I am im itching to know whats gonna happen next...
Why do I get this feeling that work just didn't happen to start today. Hell I bet most of the sim is already finished :lol: Now come clean guys, this had been in the works for awhile and G2i didn't just happen to decide to start up a new project? Am I right or wrong :P
I think OIR was never intented to be released.... was all for hype, then pop an alternative that they have been workin on all the time...... ;)
It would of been nice if all the good work that was coming out of OIR was actually FO they were talking about, but had to keep up good apperances for atari.
I think you may have something there Chicago, In fact it wouldn't surprise me that Fighter Ops is really OIR/Falcon V under a new name, I mean F-16 F-15 & A-10, sounds a little too familar to OIR/Falcon V.
I've read the "political program" about your intentions and it doesn't seem bad. But those are words, now I'm curious about *how* you plan to concretely realize those intentions.
If you want my point of view, I'd like to see something similar to online games (mmorpgs). But this is something to plan now and start AFTER release. Instead of releasing a game, then wait a few years to release another one and so on... The idea could be to involve the community directly in the work.
Aside that you ask a monthly fee (cheapest you can).
The monthly fee could be used for two purpose:
1- Have a few servers always on and supported directly by G2I to have decent multiplayers matches.
2- Shifting from the old idea of "gold status". You release a solid product when it's ready. Then you keep developing it as before the actual release. You wrote in the post about "platform". This is the idea.
Instead of a "finished" game, you build a platform on which you can develop a *growing* game. Both with the work of the community and yours.
The monthly fee will be perfect to mantain a full team throughout the years. I'm sure that the falcon community is more then ready to pay 10$ monthly if you give them good servers on which to play and an ongoing, solid development (and support).
That said, I'm a bit worried about the idea of the whole earth globe simulated. It doesn't sound possible in a decent, good-looking way.
Man, did you read the concept on the main page. Can you emagine a world wide scale dynamic war with thousands of airports. I think to make a good sale, they need to include a few migs or su for the other side of the fence and not limit the flyables to american only planes. This sim could be MSFS on steroroids :P I wish I could do something to help but I don't know crap about making sims. If you guys need any help from untalented ppl, let me know :D
I would kinda think that Licensing the source code for falcon, and comming up w/something similar would get G2I in big trouble w/Atari... THas just my thoughts though... So using work from Oir, which was worked licensed from the source code for a new game is a no no. Or am i mistaken.... ARgg im goin on and on, and dunno if my train of thought is correct, might aswell flame me now haha
HRose,
You aren't the HRose from Wish beta are you? If you are... I'm Eluzion. You might know me? :)
Anyways, I completely agree on the MMORPG type system and in a way, that's kind of how it is. Again, I don't really know what I can all say and I'll leave that to Tejay and Claude but I think the setup is something you'll like, if you like MMORPGs.
Man, did you read the concept on the main page. Can you emagine a world wide scale dynamic war with thousands of airports. I think to make a good sale, they need to include a few migs or su for the other side of the fence and not limit the flyables to american only planes. This sim could be MSFS on steroroids :P I wish I could do something to help but I don't know crap about making sims. If you guys need any help from untalented ppl, let me know :D
Soon as things start rolling Chicago, even though you might not be able to code or create models, input on different "topics" is always very very important. The focus of the project is to create a "from the community, for the community" type game (which in my opinion, is exactly what I've always wanted).
If any of you play MMORPGs, I think you'll know how frustrating it is when devs make changes that make no sense at all. :)
ok cool, I'll be glad to help out and I just realized, you live in the same town as my best buddy i've know for 15 years even though we lost touch. You don't happen to know a Paul Wentworth by chance?
You aren't the HRose from Wish beta are you? If you are... I'm Eluzion. You might know me? :)
Anyways, I completely agree on the MMORPG type system and in a way, that's kind of how it is. Again, I don't really know what I can all say and I'll leave that to Tejay and Claude but I think the setup is something you'll like, if you like MMORPGs.
Yes, I remember you. Internet feels so small...
The idea isn't to create a persistent setting (it's a dream but it's still way out of scope. It could be an evolution but it's not doable now).
The idea is to shift the "business model". Instead of developing a project, release it, then move to a new one. You keep working on the same thing "forever".
One month you rework the netcode, one month you add a graphic feature, another you add content and so on. This while letting open the doors to "modules". So that the community is able to build parts of the game (datas, skins, models etc...).
You keep the control of the raw, tech engine. Got paid for ongoing development and give the community the full control of the game. Aside the .exe which should be mantained internally.
The platform you build is completely for the community. You develop the tools to mantain the modules so that installs will be one-click away. I think this is something the community could love.
A small fee to have servers up, ongoing development and a growing platform to use = Infinite potential.
So is this gonna be like WW2 online or sumthing along the same lines, but the community gets to develop part of it?
fredm2002
03-03-2004, 01:43
sounds like what Janes Combat Simulation was trying to get off the ground before EA pulled the plug.......... :lol:
Yes, I remember you. Internet feels so small...
The idea isn't to create a persistent setting (it's a dream but it's still way out of scope. It could be an evolution but it's not doable now).
The idea is to shift the "business model". Instead of developing a project, release it, then move to a new one. You keep working on the same thing "forever".
One month you rework the netcode, one month you add a graphic feature, another you add content and so on. This while letting open the doors to "modules". So that the community is able to build parts of the game (datas, skins, models etc...).
You keep the control of the raw, tech engine. Got paid for ongoing development and give the community the full control of the game. Aside the .exe which should be mantained internally.
The platform you build is completely for the community. You develop the tools to mantain the modules so that installs will be one-click away. I think this is something the community could love.
A small fee to have servers up, ongoing development and a growing platform to use = Infinite potential.
Lol no way. I can't believe that's you. :) Did you get into 1.5?
Anyways, back to the main point. Yeah, I am totally for the whole idea of creating a project that is always evolving and is continously being patched. You know, I think you hit the nail dead on the head. This is exactly the "vision" I think most of us have.
Predator[23rd]
03-03-2004, 03:24
Guys,
are you serious about the "feature list"? You have some programers onboard, don't you? Have they an estimate on how long this would take??? Remember, Microprose announced Falcon 4.0 almost 5 years before its release. I can remember two Falcon 4.0 features which stunned me: "photorealistic terrain" and "will require Win95". At the time they started it Microprose was one of the most experienced simulation developers and still the needed 5 years to produce it.
Seriously, your feature list is full with big (I mean huge) risks and, as somebody said on FW, the announcement of 6 game types (or derivates) in total remindes me about the same PR mistakes of the past.
I believe it would not be a bad idea to come up with a prove of concept before you start dreaming about the next millenium.
And here is my list of questions I would have to be answered:
1° Do you start from scratch or do you have a code on which you can build your dreams?
2° If you already have code to start working with, on which simulation is it based?
3° Have you decided on milestones? If so, can you list them?
4° Who the **** is GenAvSimulations, Inc.? Have they a website? In which simulations were they involved in the past?
5° How long can your budget support your expenses?
Dragon1721
03-03-2004, 03:56
I think that this is a "grand" idea so far. The hype is great, and if they do take into consideration the things that the community wants, then they have my vote.
As for being MSFS on steroids....yeah, I could see that. :)
And also, not to compare this project with any other sim out there now, but LOMAC'S graphics are top-notch. Now, if I could get those graphics with some other flyable's, I'll be all set (hint, hint, Harrier GR.7, Tornado F.3, AlphaJet, and for some strange reason an S-3 Viking.). :)
Dynamic Campaign a must, and I LOVE the idea of the "add-on" programs later in the series. Getting tired of flying your F-15E, then load up the Army Ops progam and hop in your Apache. I hope that they can "integrate those products with each other, kind of like Destroyer/Sub Command. Your Buddies fly cover for you in F-16's while you're 50' off the deck in your Apache. :)
Just my 2cents, take what you want, leave the rest.
mmmmm, you pay for a game, then you have to pay $10 a month to continue playing. Count me out HRose!
I dont care too much about online servers. Let me pay for my own add ons as and when I choose.
trance
i dont like paying for a monthly subscription for online play either plus the original price for the game
Predator[23rd]
03-03-2004, 05:53
I think that this is a "grand" idea so far. The hype is great, and if they do take into consideration the things that the community wants, then they have my vote.
As for being MSFS on steroids....yeah, I could see that. :)
And also, not to compare this project with any other sim out there now, but LOMAC'S graphics are top-notch. Now, if I could get those graphics with some other flyable's, I'll be all set (hint, hint, Harrier GR.7, Tornado F.3, AlphaJet, and for some strange reason an S-3 Viking.). :)
Dynamic Campaign a must, and I LOVE the idea of the "add-on" programs later in the series. Getting tired of flying your F-15E, then load up the Army Ops progam and hop in your Apache. I hope that they can "integrate those products with each other, kind of like Destroyer/Sub Command. Your Buddies fly cover for you in F-16's while you're 50' off the deck in your Apache. :)
Just my 2cents, take what you want, leave the rest.
You are kidding, right?
Mircoprose tried that and failed. Furthermore such a projekt would take ages before it can be completed and would require enormous ressources. Short: forget it!
195th_Seawolf
03-03-2004, 05:58
Same here. Not to be a cheap skate or anything, but I just feel like playing games online should be free. If they want to charge to use thier servers then thats fine, but users should at least have an option to do TCP/IP and LAN connects without using a pay server.
As far as this whole project goes I say go for it. It's not like there are 5 other sims on the horizon being worked on. If you guys want to add another sim to the community then by all means do it. Just don't shut the community out of the process until its too late to add what they want. Call me crazy but I'm a firm believer that "if you build it they will come". Look at IL2FB for example.
As long as it's accurate, realistic, pretty, stable, and expandable then count me in.
Oh and Please PLEASE! get the multiplayer right on this one fellas. :wink:
mmmmm, you pay for a game, then you have to pay $10 a month to continue playing. Count me out HRose!
I dont care too much about online servers. Let me pay for my own add ons as and when I choose.
trance
That would be kinda steep, but if it's being continously developed with new add-ons, which are actually usefull or "pretty" then I believe that most falconeers would be willing to pay some sort of fee. $10/month would be a lot though, maybe $5 and only for online subscription. Make the sim dependent on a subscription and you would probably loose a lot of good simmers. I can see paying for an awesome training program led by Haole :shock: . Wouldn' t that be something.
Sascha "Conan" Mangs
Predator[23rd]
03-03-2004, 09:45
Does anybody from G2I bothers to answer my questions? You said every question is welcome and will be answered. So do it!
Darkness
03-03-2004, 10:05
I guess all the experience with Falcon 4 can be redirected to create the new sim. Maybe they are now developing a new sim based on Falcon 4 core program. Be careful, I donīt say they could be using Falcon 4 code, but the experience with that code in order to create the core of the new sim. That could give them a lot of things done, so the could concentrate in graphics, sound, new planes, etc. Well thatīs only personal, but why not get the good from Falcon 4 and dress it with new and powerful ideas of things we are all waiting for?
Ravenous
03-03-2004, 10:16
one day at a time boys and girls, we have waited this long.. another year wont kill us :shock: least i hope not
Predator[23rd]
03-03-2004, 10:33
nobody is saying anything about being inpatient. we have a completly different problem here. the community is looking for something which can give them hope that the job will be done. at the moment there is nothing (I regret to say that this is no big surprize) which builds confidence. on the contrary, Tejay came already up with a timeframe nobody believes in.
the coming days will be difficult and if they can't handle a few days of flaming it would be better for them to stop.
]nobody is saying anything about being inpatient. we have a completly different problem here. the community is looking for something which can give them hope that the job will be done. at the moment there is nothing (I regret to say that this is no big surprize) which builds confidence. on the contrary, Tejay came already up with a timeframe nobody believes in.
the coming days will be difficult and if they can't handle a few days of flaming it would be better for them to stop.
Hey Predator,
I don't blame you at all and I know you have heard this five million times but just sit tight, and lets see how things turn out. I think as soon as some more information is released (which will be soon I hiope), you'll being understanding how it will work.
Also, welcome to the forums. :)
Predator[23rd]
03-03-2004, 11:21
Also, welcome to the forums. :)
Thanx, mate! But prepare for a rough ride, I am can be very demanding when it comes to Falcon 4.0. :twisted:
BigBoy01
03-03-2004, 14:59
As for a 4th Qtr release being too soon for "from scratch", doesn't "from scratch" imply from the start (or as a slang term for money, aside from the obvious " to scratch ones' self")) but not neccesarily imply a date or specific point in time? Today, next week, last month. Maybe there's more time than we know between "from scratch" and fourth Qtr. 04'.
If this whole thing is just a giant crank yank why go to the trouble (expense) of putting up a nice new site? (Although it fits nicely with my Hasbro's Revenge conspiracy theory).
Does anyone think Mr. Haole could be so far off the mark in his support.
Ara as moderator!? That would be a complete waste of his talent.
LOL.
]
Also, welcome to the forums. :)
Thanx, mate! But prepare for a rough ride, I am can be very demanding when it comes to Falcon 4.0. :twisted:
Me too! But you have to remember, this isn't Falcon. :D
Predator[23rd]
03-03-2004, 16:28
Me too! But you have to remember, this isn't Falcon. :D
I know, it is worse. G2I implied that it will be the perfect Falcon 4.0 replacement. Naturally, this is hard to believe and is even harder (in my case "impossible" describes it much better) not to react in a very strong manner to this.
I was just reading RazorBlades post "Show us what you got". Have to say I agree with him. Tell us what you got without the standard lines of "not yet", "it is not ready", "hold still" etc. G2I should realize that the time of such luxus is over for them, they used all their credits and now even the strongest believers and optimists are jumping.
No offence, but cut the crap and tell us what you are planing to do - today, tomorrow and every single day in the next coming 2 weeks. Even if it is "nothin'. watchin' the game. havin' a bud" (which you btw can do in your free free-time, in your free time you better work on the project! :twisted: )
what is it with guys being impatient its always we want it now now NOW type attitude :D
[quote="Predator[23rd]"]Guys,
are you serious about the "feature list"? You have some programers onboard, don't you? Have they an estimate on how long this would take??? Remember, Microprose announced Falcon 4.0 almost 5 years before its release. I can remember two Falcon 4.0 features which stunned me: "photorealistic terrain" and "will require Win95". At the time they started it Microprose was one of the most experienced simulation developers and still the needed 5 years to produce it.
Seriously, your feature list is full with big (I mean huge) risks and, as somebody said on FW, the announcement of 6 game types (or derivates) in total remindes me about the same PR mistakes of the past.
I believe it would not be a bad idea to come up with a prove of concept before you start dreaming about the next millenium.
And here is my list of questions I would have to be answered:
1° Do you start from scratch or do you have a code on which you can build your dreams? No we have a code that we are working on right now.
2° If you already have code to start working with, on which simulation is it based? That information will not be revieled at this stage, I think the fact that it makes us possible to make this sim is more then enough.
3° Have you decided on milestones? If so, can you list them?
We have or goals set, the milestones will be harder to place and I'm not going deeper on that yet.
4° Who the [censored] is GenAvSimulations, Inc.? Have they a website? In which simulations were they involved in the past? GenAvSim is a private owned company that is willing to help us accomplish our quest, more information will be available the moment we have the window of opportunity to do so.
5° How long can your budget support your expenses??
Budget is a bussinessmatter and I do not have that information for you.
I appologise if I couldn't answer all of your questions yet.
This is a new project and as much as we want you supporting us, just as much do we want to keep our bussinesspartners in confidence, I'm sure you understands that this benefits us all.
]
Me too! But you have to remember, this isn't Falcon. :D
I know, it is worse. G2I implied that it will be the perfect Falcon 4.0 replacement. Naturally, this is hard to believe and is even harder (in my case "impossible" describes it much better) not to react in a very strong manner to this.
I was just reading RazorBlades post "Show us what you got". Have to say I agree with him. Tell us what you got without the standard lines of "not yet", "it is not ready", "hold still" etc. G2I should realize that the time of such luxus is over for them, they used all their credits and now even the strongest believers and optimists are jumping.
No offence, but cut the crap and tell us what you are planing to do - today, tomorrow and every single day in the next coming 2 weeks. Even if it is "nothin'. watchin' the game. havin' a bud" (which you btw can do in your free free-time, in your free time you better work on the project! :twisted: )
What do you want me to tell you predator?
We already had 2 RC's?? We switched over to the F-22 and the spaceshuttle??
This is a new project.
And the moment we have something to show you it'll be up ASAP.
We are working on the basic of this and we are already working on the code.
I can't tell you more then there is.
Flareless
03-03-2004, 18:09
First post on Viper Ops - Hi Y'all!
All I ask is ;
1. A slick API for programmers along the lines of MS Flight Sim.
2. Massive support for cockpit builders
3. Multi-PC support for slaving off displays, functions, etc...
4. Multiprocessor server support for dedicated hosting of MP games
Oh, and it has to look gorgeous, fly like the real thing and have everything described in the FO mission plan without glitches or bugs.
And I'd like it by Q4 please ;)
Seriously though, this is an ambitious plan that would kick ass if it comes to fruition properly. I'd pay a few hundred bucks for a REALLY GOOD sim. You can't expect anything good for 40 bucks but you might consider selling Standard and Pro versions. I know, it sounds very Microsofty but then hey....I like Microsoft http://imgshare.no-ip.info/smilies/duck.gif
Just curious Pacman or Eluzion...You state that the code is currently being worked on. That would imply that a team is already in place. Is the team finished or are more people coming on board? You mentioned in answer to another one my questions that there are still some contractual issues delaying some announcements. So is the team still being formed? :punk: Rock on!
Predator[23rd]
03-03-2004, 18:22
Good start Pacman, good start.
Now I will sit back and wait for updates. Hope that I don't have to wait for 2 months ...
i dont like paying for a monthly subscription for online play either plus the original price for the game
It's not to play online. That's the little part.
It's to have ongoing development.
Once you sell a game in a gold status you can only gain enough money to support it for a few months (patches). F4 is exception, the code was leaked, it will never happen again. You CANNOT allow ongoing development without money.
The monthly fee is an idea to have a growing simulations on all levels. It's not your "average" sim at retail price + monthly fee. Is a completely new offer that will grow quickly in the years.
Each month you are supposed to have new stuff patched in. After a pair of years you'll have something wonderful.
"Something wonderful" isn't possible without ongoing development.
Ongoing development isn't possible with a constant flow of cash to support it.
A constant flow of cash isn't possible in a niche market.
Maestro: Yes part of the team is already in place and working on it.
Predator: no you won't sir
Now if you gentlemen and lady would excuse me, I had no sleep last night so I'm gonna catch up on some zzz's.
Have a goodnight/evening/day all 8)
:-p **** timezones
Spectre-63
03-04-2004, 03:41
]Does anybody from G2I bothers to answer my questions? You said every question is welcome and will be answered. So do it!
Just be glad it wasn't too uncomfortable....they would've locked or deleted the thread.
same old organization with a shiny new name and a shiny new raft of chrome-plated bullschmidt
model the whole globe?
that makes me wince. MS tries to do that and the result is a whole lot of poor terrain. Lomac and il2fb are smarter pick a spot and do it well.
one step in making us believe this is real is to let us get to know the core team, the guys who are building the thing. Give us some pics, bios and let somebody interview them. Like frugal.
There is some talk that MP will be a pay as you fly deal. Is this part of the business model?
]Does anybody from G2I bothers to answer my questions? You said every question is welcome and will be answered. So do it!
Just be glad it wasn't too uncomfortable....they would've locked or deleted the thread.
same old organization with a shiny new name and a shiny new raft of chrome-plated bullschmidt
I hope I'm the shiny part, :mrgreen: and btw his post was answered :wink:
I have a family, I work shifts and things to do in the house....sometimes I even do sleep 8)
So I apologise if something isn't answered in the same hour, maybe even the same day.
btw posting questions might be easier if this is done in let's say this thread.
I don't have to look too far and this saves me time for my other work, and answering your questions.
Thank you,
Buckshot
03-04-2004, 09:46
There is some talk that MP will be a pay as you fly deal. Is this part of the business model?
No there has been no talk of this at all.
IxianMace
03-04-2004, 09:51
Glad to hear that, I really hope that people won't have to pay to fly online. Multiplayer online might implode rapidly if that were the case. :shock:
model the whole globe?
that makes me wince. MS tries to do that and the result is a whole lot of poor terrain. Lomac and il2fb are smarter pick a spot and do it well.
one step in making us believe this is real is to let us get to know the core team, the guys who are building the thing. Give us some pics, bios and let somebody interview them. Like frugal.
There is some talk that MP will be a pay as you fly deal. Is this part of the business model?
If you would be so kind to scroll back, I replied to some of those issues.
We gave you the information that is now available and will give you more info as it becomes available.
There is really no use in dragging out more info then there is.
THAT is exactly what would lead to misinformation.
And as far as this "pay as you fly" deal goes, there have never been talks about it, and it never will happen.
MP will be like any other sim or game that is currently available.
Look, this isnt Falcon anymore, so can we all please just get off G2's back and see what they come up with. Enjoy Falcon in the inerim. And if you dont "fly" Falcon why the Hotel are you even here? :wink:
Predator[23rd]
03-04-2004, 11:23
Look, this isnt Falcon anymore so can we all please just get off G2's back and see what they come up with. Enjoy Falcon in the inerim. And if you dont "fly" Falcon why the Hotel are you even here? :wink:
Hmm, this raises some questions. OK, I understand that it has nothing in common with the brand name FALCON 4.0. But when you say "this isnt Falcon anymore" I am asking myself two things:
1° Since I don't believe in miracles a la 10 months time-to-market for a simulation which a) is being designed form scratch and b) should supersede Falcon 4.0 as the flightsimulation benchmark there has to be some pretty advanced (in terms of production cycles, not necessarily technology) code in the hands of G2I. Where does it come from?
2° Some of the guys who mate up with G2I are (or were) developers in various Falcon 4.0 community mods and few (or none) of them are professional software engineers with combat simulation software experience. If the new game is not based on something related with Falcon 4.0 then what can they contribute before they can even fly a beta and master the game?
At this point I am very curious how much of Falcon 4.0 will be in the new project and how much will be new....
At this point I am very curious how much of Falcon 4.0 will be in the new project and how much will be new....
I think we all are.
]
Look, this isnt Falcon anymore so can we all please just get off G2's back and see what they come up with. Enjoy Falcon in the inerim. And if you dont "fly" Falcon why the Hotel are you even here? :wink:
Hmm, this raises some questions. OK, I understand that it has nothing in common with the brand name FALCON 4.0. But when you say "this isnt Falcon anymore" I am asking myself two things:
1° Since I don't believe in miracles a la 10 months time-to-market for a simulation which a) is being designed form scratch and b) should supersede Falcon 4.0 as the flightsimulation benchmark there has to be some pretty advanced (in terms of production cycles, not necessarily technology) code in the hands of G2I. Where does it come from?
2° Some of the guys who mate up with G2I are (or were) developers in various Falcon 4.0 community mods and few (or none) of them are professional software engineers with combat simulation software experience. If the new game is not based on something related with Falcon 4.0 then what can they contribute before they can even fly a beta and master the game?
At this point I am very curious how much of Falcon 4.0 will be in the new project and how much will be new....
The idea of Falcon remains, making a sim as realistic as possible.
I think the most important thing of the code is that it makes us able to work out our project.
195th_Seawolf
03-05-2004, 17:27
Can't wait to see some of these same people turn 180 degrees in a few months when they find out this wont be Falcon5 with a different name. Get your VCRs ready peeps, its gonna be a wild ride.
Seawolf and others,
I think some of the skepticism comes from the fact that since G2I received rights to the code, there has been nothing but snafu after snafu. The original team, Force 12, quit or left or were fired. Then we heard no news for quite some time. Then BMS came in. They made some fantastic changes. G2I through Stang, Eluzion, and others started frequenting boards and keeping us up to date better than before. Jam and his team whetted our appetites. I still have in my mind the "Mesh this" thread from Frugal's. But then out of the blue, boom, no more OIR, and it appears no more BMS, as far as its relationship to G2I, Atari and the Falcon code are concerned.
I was so looking forward to an updated Falcon. I am tired of the releases of, what undoubtedly are incredible pieces of work from the FF and UT guys, but to me Falcon is getting long in the tooth and I really want a full-time team working on a new Falcon or in this case a new modern flight sim. Man, there is already the stuttering problem, which I might add has been identified and will be fixed, but things are happening so fast I can't even follow what is going on. I am too old I guess.
Anyhow, I don't appreciate some of the posters just being negative for negative sakes, but G2I does indeed have something to prove and I for one hope they can finally pull something together, but again, people are aksing for information because we are doubtful, not out of some arrogance or idea that we could do better and want them to fail, but rather because what we have seen so far is rather disappointing. G2I has come close to redeeming themselves but fell just short. I still would like to know why the Atari deal fell through. What happened? It seemed Falcon OIR was looking great. The Beta testers said things were looking incredible and again I refer back to the Jam's "Mesh this" thread.
How heartbreaking it was then to read quite matter of factly that the deal with Atari was off, done. BMS has said nothing to this point. Those guys are so talented that they need to be working on a first class new sim, not just reviving older sims like BoB, MA or F4. Man, I would feel much more comfortable if I knew BMS somehow had a part in the development of Fighter OPS.
I don't want this to sound condescending in any way, but it is the truth. G2I has to prove itself and I think we, potential customers, don't have the right to know, but it would be in the best interest of G2I to be very upfront and forthright with the potential customers because of what has happened in the past. I have spoken to Claude on various occasions via email and he seems a dedicated simmer and all around nice guy but this business venture has been nothing but a rocky road. I wish I were a coder so I could help, but I am not. I am just a potential customer.
G2I's plans are very ambitious and I hope they can pull it off, but at this point I honestly don't know what to think. I hope Stang and other PR guys will be around soon to further explain what exactly is going on. Otherwise, people will lose interest and move on to other things. I hope not as one more modern flight sim on the horizon is one more time consuming sim to occupy one of my more expensive hobbies.
195th_Seawolf
03-06-2004, 01:37
Nice read and I agree for the most part, but those few who seem to think the world revolves around them and thier crusade need to get over themselves and either be part of the solution or head somewhere else. Projects get cancelled and in the case of OIR it definantly wasn't the first nor the last to get canned.
All we can do as a community is push forward and throw support behind anyone willing to bring us a flight sim. If you cant bring yourself to be supportive and let the past go then see ya. It's really as simple as that.
Dusty Rhodes
03-06-2004, 01:50
You know Mods, I see half a dozen people in this thread that need to be shown the door PERMANENTLY. They have an agenda, they think they are owed something, and they are stirring the virtual pooh for no reason, and under factless, baseless assumptions and wild ass guess'. Get rid of them. :evil:
Seawolf that was a very valid post and thanks for the support
195th_Seawolf
03-06-2004, 02:16
Your welcome
Seawolf that was a very valid post and thanks for the support
Well, don't get me wrong. I support the team(s) that are working on this new sim. But you have to admit that G2I's road to success has still been rocky therefore with trepidation I support this new venture and hope for the best. :thumbsup:
You know Mods, I see half a dozen people in this thread that need to be shown the door PERMANENTLY. They have an agenda, they think they are owed something, and they are stirring the virtual pooh for no reason, and under factless, baseless assumptions and wild ass guess'. Get rid of them. :evil:
Agreed. Well said.
this is the most AMBITIOUS project ive ever heard.
it is only a HYPE i believe, this HUGE scaled project would take long to be perfect. or it will be like Falcon 4.0 on its first release, BUGGY! (altough one said it took 5 years of experienced developer).
so.. lets say they can make it and release it in Q4/2004, would it still playable on averaged PCs (like me, AXP2100 256mb GFX5200)! as F4 SP3 FF2.1 BMS1.03 only give me less than 30fps when i'm playing a korean campaign!
hey, this game intended to be the first class in the planet right? so make it playable in every PC of this planet too! (my only hope)
You know Mods, I see half a dozen people in this thread that need to be shown the door PERMANENTLY. They have an agenda, they think they are owed something, and they are stirring the virtual pooh for no reason, and under factless, baseless assumptions and wild ass guess'. Get rid of them. :evil:
One of the things that has always saddened me about the Flight Sim community is how factional and petty it can get, with an endless stream of idiots clammering to become top muck raker.
There are people here who are just here to troll and cause trouble. Its an ego trip for them plain and simple. Their questions were answered as best as could be, but of course that is not good enough. They want a fight and won't stop till they get one. You can't win and it's pointless trying.
Problem is that if (or rather when) they get booted they'll pop back to the forums they generally frequent and start long winded tirades about G2I/Fighter Op's refusing to answer questions, censoring them, and booting then because G2I/Fighter OPs is too scared to face them.
That they were booted for being trolls? - nah, must be something else man.
Never agrue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience.
You know Mods, I see half a dozen people in this thread that need to be shown the door PERMANENTLY. They have an agenda, they think they are owed something, and they are stirring the virtual pooh for no reason, and under factless, baseless assumptions and wild ass guess'. Get rid of them. :evil:
One of the things that has always saddened me about the Flight Sim community is how factional and petty it can get, with an endless stream of idiots clammering to become top muck raker.
There are people here who are just here to troll and cause trouble. Its an ego trip for them plain and simple. Their questions were answered as best as could be, but of course that is not good enough. They want a fight and won't stop till they get one. You can't win and it's pointless trying.
Problem is that if (or rather when) they get booted they'll pop back to the forums they generally frequent and start long winded tirades about G2I/Fighter Op's refusing to answer questions, censoring them, and booting then because G2I/Fighter OPs is too scared to face them.
That they were booted for being trolls? - nah, must be something else man.
Never agrue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience.
Yup poor frugal coped some threads over my moderating here as a couple of guys went back and complained about me :-p
[16th]Dingo
03-06-2004, 18:16
i dont like paying for a monthly subscription for online play either plus the original price for the game
I second this !
Charlie_VFP
03-06-2004, 19:23
You know, the more support they get from the community, the more likely this will happen.
So instead of arguing the days away.... why not see if you can do something to help?
Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
This is aimed at no one specifically.
You know Mods, I see half a dozen people in this thread that need to be shown the door PERMANENTLY. They have an agenda, they think they are owed something, and they are stirring the virtual pooh for no reason, and under factless, baseless assumptions and wild ass guess'. Get rid of them. :evil:
Then the new marketing slogan can be: FighterOPS: For the mature simmer (or at least one that agrees to use two brain cells when simming or visiting forums.) :punk: :-p
Actually I really hope that the simmers of the world do grow up a bit. I feel sometimes I am visiting a Splinter Cell or Rainbow Six board or a even LO-MAC board when I see and read some of the things written.
No sense gripping about trolls and grumps, they're like the rain, it will breeze through once in a while, nothing you can do about them so ignor or read for entertainment. From reader's perspective, reading the complaints about trolls is no better than wht the trolls write. Lets move on.
195th_Seawolf
03-06-2004, 22:58
Just curious Mower, are you expecting a falcon5 out of this?? what happens when this doesnt turn out to be another falcon sim then what? will you bash it like you did Lomac?
You know Mods, I see half a dozen people in this thread that need to be shown the door PERMANENTLY. They have an agenda, they think they are owed something, and they are stirring the virtual pooh for no reason, and under factless, baseless assumptions and wild ass guess'. Get rid of them. :evil:
Agreed. Well said.
Dusty Rhodes
03-07-2004, 00:15
[*Reference deleted*-Buckshot]
This particular person needs to be shown the door! He has nothing constructive to say, and is known to bash products without even owning them. Boot him Mods, or he will be a cancer that is already growing with a few others individuals here. Take control now, or it will get out of hand. Don't worry about other sites having to put up with their whining, that particular site allows it for certain people.
Buckshot
03-07-2004, 02:20
Hi Dusty, I understand what you are saying and you have a valid point. I deleted the reference to who you were talking about however, as this is likely to bring on a retaliation from the person in question and we don't want to put up with that here.
At this stage I don't feel he's done enough to warrant a banning, he made accusations etc, and when challenged to come and educate himself with facts straight from the source, he strangely enough became very quiet. If, after neglecting to take up that offer, he decides to continue spreading misinformation on our forums, he'll be quickly shown the door.
here is what get's me, not that anyone cares:
it has been asked, is this just a way to take the work done to date on oir and use it for a new sim? Answer, no this is new from the ground up.
That brings up the question, if you are doing something from the ground up, then why not release OIR and proceed on that reputation?
It is patently obvious that any new sim will use aspects of OIR. If not then the tack of not turning over the work to atari for release is putting a contractual despute ahead of the community g2i has professed to support.
telling everyone who is disappointed with the cancelation of oir to hit the highway is denial pure and simple.
a great product will heal the disappointment of the oir fiasco for the most part. what is lacking and would be most effective at the moment is a detailed apology and explanation from claude personally.
it's not that anybody OWED anybody anything. it's the simple fact that some folks led others to believe they would produce something and did not.
i sure was looking forward to oir and would have purchased it, depsite the less than professional behavior of representatives of g2i in public forums.
since g2i displayed little more than passing empathy to those looking forward to oir and who are bummed, well...what goes around comes around.
here is what get's me, not that anyone cares:
it has been asked, is this just a way to take the work done to date on oir and use it for a new sim? Answer, no this is new from the ground up.
That brings up the question, if you are doing something from the ground up, then why not release OIR and proceed on that reputation?
Because legally it cant be released without Atari's say so
It is patently obvious that any new sim will use aspects of OIR. If not then the tack of not turning over the work to atari for release is putting a contractual despute ahead of the community g2i has professed to support.
You dont know the facts and so you have no grounds to say G2i put a contract ahead of the community
telling everyone who is disappointed with the cancelation of oir to hit the highway is denial pure and simple.
No we tell anyone who is only interested in stirring to hit the highway
a great product will heal the disappointment of the oir fiasco for the most part. what is lacking and would be most effective at the moment is a detailed apology and explanation from claude personally.
Claude owes no one an explaination or apology its his business not ours
it's not that anybody OWED anybody anything. it's the simple fact that some folks led others to believe they would produce something and did not.
Due to circumstances that was unavoidable
i sure was looking forward to oir and would have purchased it, depsite the less than professional behavior of representatives of g2i in public forums.
G2i representatives have been very proffessional considering they get attacked regularly by community members
since g2i displayed little more than passing empathy to those looking forward to oir and who are bummed, well...what goes around comes around.
Yes it does and when people act respectful and polite they will be treated the same way.......
Buckshot
03-07-2004, 03:53
I had typed out a reply to uhoh's post, but I figured I'm not going to bother answering questions for somebody who hasn't bothered to read the information that has already been provided to him and continues to make baseless accusations and assumptions despite this.
What I see happening, and I think Dusty alluded to this fairly well, is we have a small group of people intent on mud slinging. They deliberately ignore the information that has been given to them in favour of promoting their own conspiracy theories or just plain garbage.
This forum will no longer be the place for this crap. The majority of people here are here to genuinely find out information about this new simulation project. None of us have any problems answering questions but it's becomming quite obvious that those answers are being ignored by a select few in favour of making trolling posts containing blatant lies in the effort to stir up a reaction.
This is not going to be tolerated any longer, posts of this nature will be deleted, period. People who continue to polute this forum will be removed. None of us have any problem with questions and any question is fine, but people looking for answers will not be forced to wade through a plethora of statements that are completely false, and where any reasonable person would know they are false before they posted them by looking at the information already available.
You know Mods, I see half a dozen people in this thread that need to be shown the door PERMANENTLY. They have an agenda, they think they are owed something, and they are stirring the virtual pooh for no reason, and under factless, baseless assumptions and wild ass guess'. Get rid of them. :evil:
Agreed. Well said.
Mower... he was talking about you... DOH!!
Dusty Rhodes
03-07-2004, 04:04
Now your talkin' Buckshot, good on ya! :thumbsup: Hang out the sign, "Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!" :shock: You know who they are. They are obvious. 8)
i'm sure they are talking about me too,
I was always a supporter of oir and the only thing i ever complained about during that time was the paucity of information.
I have read the little in this forum there is to read about what happened to oir.
i think my post represents the thinking, more or less, of many people surrounding the cancellation of oir.
i'm sorry if it pisses people off. however, unlike the responses, there are no personal attacks in the post.
the title of this thread is "we are still sceptical" In my post i say why i feel sceptical.
if you want to ban me for it... heh it's your board and you can ban whoever you like.
uhoh7
It seems to me that Pac Man is quite right. All I wish to state is from pure observation. If Fighter Ops uses Falcon data as it's gaming platform, it would be limited to graphical interface problems and code limitations when using newer hardware. Gen Sim! Does anyone know who they are? Ah, let me guess, airline simulators. Still, this could produce some serrious scenery.
Vlerkies
03-09-2004, 09:46
I for one am just going to sit back be patient and support the new product :thumbsup:
Great job guys keep it up :drink:
:military:
~S~
Vlerkies
03-11-2004, 04:35
I agree with you we are all here for a reason and that is to put the best dang sim on the market :drink:
:military:
~S~
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.7 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.