View Full Version : can we have a real pilot in here please
okay we need some pilots in here its pretty quiet :lol:
Yeah, where is Haole. :cry:
gharper1
03-03-2004, 01:06
okay we need some pilots in here its pretty quiet :lol:
*gharper1 rides in*
I flew a cessna a couple of times :)
*looks around*
if this is a bar, where's the beverages? :D
Katz! Where's the drinks! :mrgreen:
gharper1
03-03-2004, 01:15
and where's my schmoopy?!?!
no idea where your schmoopy and it definitely aint me :wink:
okay we need to get a barman and im not cleaning up any mess you guys make :P
gharper1
03-03-2004, 01:22
no idea where your schmoopy and it definitely aint me :wink:
okay we need to get a barman and im not cleaning up any mess you guys make :P
she''ll be here shortly :)
I promise we won't run amuck all over this new forum like we did when g2i's opened. ;)
I can't believe I have a higher post count than Kiwi on a g2i affiliated forum :D wonder how long that'll last... ;)
edit: do'h! tied already!
its not the post count its the content and just remember i still weild a big stick here i can still ban people and delete threads and everything i do at G2i forums :wink: :D
And after much wait and excitement....
HERE SHE IS!!!
Schmoopy has arrived! :)
and... psst, gharper...what'd you ride in on? a horse? ;)
LOL :D
You made it!
FINALLY!!! :)
:oops: i thought i broke the site!
sheesh trust a woman to arrive late :P
hmph! it's not like I didn't TRYYYYYYYYYY
sheesh... :cry:
She did try Katz.. you should go see her post on G2I's forums. LOL They are hilarious. :mrgreen:
hahaha yeah just checked and yeah she had same problem.....i reckon the forums are sexist they just arent used to having females join :lol:
*pout*
hmph now i'm the object of mockery... :(
I didn't come here to be abused. I'm going to sleep!
:P
hey whos abusing i had the same problem :P
Snake122
03-03-2004, 03:02
Hehe, I'm a CFI-I with 650 hours and I've flown a Block 30 sim. LOL That makes me cool, right? 8)
Hehe, I'm a CFI-I with 650 hours and I've flown a Block 30 sim. LOL That makes me cool, right? 8)
Pfff, :D
And hopefully soon you'll be flying the real Viper eh? :D
Hehe, I'm a CFI-I with 650 hours and I've flown a Block 30 sim. LOL That makes me cool, right? 8)
hey Snake whats the CFI-I stand for :?:
Snake122
03-03-2004, 03:38
Hehe, I'm a CFI-I with 650 hours and I've flown a Block 30 sim. LOL That makes me cool, right? 8)
Pfff, :D
And hopefully soon you'll be flying the real Viper eh? :D
;) Hopefully, if soon means about 2 years because of training and such (not to mention getting a slot at some ANG base).
Hehe, I'm a CFI-I with 650 hours and I've flown a Block 30 sim. LOL That makes me cool, right? 8)
hey Snake whats the CFI-I stand for :?:
Certified Flight Instructor-Instrument
ah ha a real life pilot fantastic :lol:
Ok here I am!!! :) I'm a pilot ... not a Viper pilot, but I've got my VFR/IFR license :) Is that good enough for you?
Ace
thats more than enough for me glad you arrived :P
Vlerkies
03-03-2004, 04:36
I also have VFR/IFR good enough? :D
Oh and i used to fly SAAF aircraft
16thLoyalty
03-03-2004, 04:45
I received my Private Pilots Lisence about 3 months ago, in FS2004, does that count? LOL
Plus I took a discovery flight in a Cessna 152 for $25.00 and he let me fly from taxi/take off to land and took me through the procedures of a stall, only problem we had was I was so exicted that I forgot to pay attention to where we took off from and when it came time to head back I had not a clue which way to go. Boy have I learned alot since then.
sheesh now the pilots bar is getting inundated with pilots and all i asked for was one little pilot :oops: :P
16thLoyalty
03-03-2004, 04:48
I'm sorry I was just playing, I had previously only read the last post to this thread.
Vlerkies
03-03-2004, 04:48
:D :D :D :D
I'm sorry I was just playing, I had previously only read the last post to this thread.
your fine the more the merrier i think :wink: :D
195th_Seawolf
03-03-2004, 05:11
I stayed at a Holiday inn express last night and saved a bunch of cash on my car insurence with Geico. Does that count??
nope sorry doesnt count its gotta be something to do with flying not driving transport :P :lol:
Vlerkies
03-03-2004, 05:30
Touchè :lol:
195th_Seawolf
03-03-2004, 05:43
Well I didn't have much stick time in the S3B (at least not that I could claim in my logbook) but I had a really cool trackball in the backseat with a few traps/cat shots under my belt. Will that do?? :wink:
i guess that will have to do, mind you your the exception to the rule if anyone else tries sneaking in with anything that isnt flight related they get the bums rush :P
IxianMace
03-03-2004, 09:44
Lol, 'bums rush'? :lol:
Norwegian
03-03-2004, 10:02
sheesh now the pilots bar is getting inundated with pilots and all i asked for was one little pilot :oops: :P
There is no such thing Katz. :P
Boeing presently.
All good wishes to you and the team.
Really hope it works out.
Well now that we have some real pilots in the bar, all we need is some great stories to be told.
"There I was at 20,000 feet, when suddenly...."
Don't you just love fighter pilot stories? :wink:
195th_Seawolf
03-03-2004, 10:45
Well I promise I wont touch any of the fancy buttons or flashing lights, but this Yellow and Black handle looks pretty cool.
16 162 Raven
03-03-2004, 11:05
hi folks i like the new site im not a fighter jock but i am a pilot does that count? lol
16 162 Raven
03-03-2004, 11:09
seawolf, how do you post your siggy? ive got one from the 16th and would like to be able to post it.
sheesh now the pilots bar is getting inundated with pilots and all i asked for was one little pilot :oops: :P
what's a little pilot? :?:
;)
I’m not a "zipper-suited sun god" but I do like to hang-out wherever there’s talk of an A-10 sim! 8)
Ok, so where´s the champaign ??
sheesh now the pilots bar is getting inundated with pilots and all i asked for was one little pilot :oops: :P
what's a little pilot? :?:
;)
I'm little, but not a pilot :D
I?m not a "zipper-suited sun god" but I do like to hang-out wherever there?s talk of an A-10 sim! 8)
wooooohoooo Dice you got here fantastic :D
where you been havent seen you around lately
Hey Ami welcome and glad you got here :P
I know K, I was loaded down with work to do today. The owner and myself called it quits at 4 this afternoon. Got home and fell to sleep, got up and got Goblin re-set up with SP3.
no worries i realise you have a busy schedule at times and at least you have a real life not like some of us real life wannabes :D
I?m not a "zipper-suited sun god" but I do like to hang-out wherever there?s talk of an A-10 sim! 8)
wooooohoooo Dice you got here fantastic :D
where you been havent seen you around lately
Gearing-up for retirement in May and getting spun-up on my new job (with the A-10) so I've been busy. I've also gotten into SFP1 so I have been off my "normal" fourms and just enjoying playing sim and not talking about them. :punk:
I finally made it! Been out flying tonight and just got in. I will be in the forums tomorrow around 8-9 am if anyone wants to chat. I look forward to talking with everyone! :thumbsup:
fantastic our favourite pilot is going to be on deck <S> Haole
Katz:
are you a pilot?
what ratings?
how much time you got logged
no im a pilot wannabe, if i was able i would learn to fly helo's so instead im going to learn falcon :D
Hi Everyone! I am not a real pilot but definately an enthusist! Just thought I'd say hi. My name is Rock and I have been a member of the Freebirds for a couple of years and have been flying falcon for approximately 3 years. Good to meet everyone!
IFR rated and nearly through Commercial...
Very nice to have you all aboard gentlemen, enjoy your time on our forums. :drink:
Charlie_VFP
03-06-2004, 13:37
I am not a pilot but have considerable hours in civilian aircraft and military simulators. I spent over 5 years in Marine Corps Aviation, mainly working on the F/A-18C and her wonderful Avionics. I have over 45 hours in the simulator testing various flight models during single and multiple system failures. Also have 2 cruises under my belt, so if you have questions regarding cerrier operations, I can probably answer those too.
So, not a pilot, but have a bit of aviation experiance if it will help out.
Vlerkies
03-08-2004, 10:46
Ok Katz, you asked for pilots and you got them, so when does the pilot talk start? :D :wink:
:military:
~S~
Quintin do you have a picture of your aircraft?? :)
Good evening all!
I am sorry that I have not been around as much as I would like. I will soon be opening up a "Haole's Corner"here on fighterops.com in the near future. Each week I plan on covering topics that I feel will be both entertaining and informative. For example, I may tell you about a sortie that I flew recently to keep you all "in the know" on what we do on training missions. I'll talk about my personal techniques in the RL jet as compared to how I fly the sim (hopefully they will be very similiar!). If they arent now, they will be after I talk with the programmers! :mrgreen:
I look forward to talking with you all and I will be taking suggestions as to what topics you would like covered in my weekly article. With enough input I may even post more than one article a week. Talk with all soon!!
:thumbsup:
Vlerkies
03-09-2004, 01:18
Quintin do you have a picture of your aircraft?? :)
Yeah i got it at home :D
:military:
~S~
ringlingj
03-09-2004, 16:21
I have flown small aircraft like the Katana DA-20, which obviously doesn't compare to fighter jets...but hey! My instrument time with Falcon 4.0 and Microprose F-15 helped with my instrument flying in real life!!! So, flying sims isn't as big of a waste of time as some might think :thumbsup:
Dangerman
03-09-2004, 17:51
hi all...Ex RAF recce mudmover.. now airline pilot... does that count as being a pilot? :D
oh wow we got heaps of real pilots :drink: :thumbsup:
FlyBoy01
03-09-2004, 21:18
FlyBoy01 entering downwind,
Private Pilot VFR/ IFR in training (testing hopefully in a couple of months), four trips thru Texas Air Aces in T34's for ACM, Aerobatics and Unusual attitude recovery.
Does that count?
yes it counts as your a real pilot you fly real planes not like me who is a wannabe :thumbsup:
...stick with it. IFR is probably the most rewarding flying I've ever done. Especially the long XC, four hours , a VOR approach and off with the foggles to see the runway laid out right in front of me. Did my heart some good on the way home to see my instructor conked out in the seat next to me. :)
Vlerkies
03-10-2004, 01:26
:lol: :lol:
:drink: Have a cold one on me Galt
:military:
~S~
May glider Pilots count in, too? Well, ok - its not the fastest way to fly - but it's better than every sim :D
Hello all.
I am an ATPL Helicopter pilot (VFR/IFR) with over 3000 hs although no flight time on fighters :roll:
Helos are very interesting as well :thumbsup:
I mostly work on rescue and medevac stuff but fly Falcon as hobby :D
Vlerkies
03-24-2004, 10:54
It's great having a helo pilot here, now i can get some tips for my next licence :drink:
:military:
~S~
It's great having a helo pilot here, now i can get some tips for my next licence :drink:
:military:
~S~
Anytime. :)
:drink:
nope sorry doesnt count its gotta be something to do with flying not driving transport
I've made some make-shift wings out of some old bedsheets and some struts of wood that I've broken off the skirting boards. I've also attached them to a zipper-suit, and I'm planning to take my first flight out the window soon. Does that count?
If you crash at lower acceleration of 9.8 meters per second it surely counts :-p
Remember to log the flight time
:thumbsup:
...I got an incentive ride in an F-16 a few summers ago. APPARENTLY from what the pilot told me I can log it because he's an instructor pilot.... hmmm...I'd always meant to pursue that. How cool would THAT be to pen into my log book? :)
Vlerkies
03-26-2004, 00:53
Great stuff for you Galt, you must definately log it :thumbsup:
:military:
~S~
If you crash at lower acceleration of 9.8 meters per second it surely counts
The way I see it, I have two options for measuring my acceleration:
1. Set up a series of laser markers connected to a timer.
2. Use ticker-tape.
Hmm...
Vlerkies
03-29-2004, 02:38
There is another way, take the height you jumping from, take a watch and time yourself in seconds. With all the drinks being passed around i'm too tired to work out the rest plus been out doing cross country last night for some big head business guy (Hope he doesn't visit these forums) :thumbsup:
:drink: :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink: :drink: more drinks on me
:military:
~S~
Well now that we have some real pilots in the bar, all we need is some great stories to be told.
"There I was at 20,000 feet, when suddenly...."
Don't you just love fighter pilot stories? :wink:
somebody's been flying Chuck Yeager's Air Combat :-p
WARNING
Poster has been banned for 30 days for Trolling / Shit-Stirring.
Anymore post like this from USAF (after the 30 day bann) will translate into a PERMANITE BANN from the Fighter Ops Forums!
Stang
What does CFI-I mean?!?!?!?! Anyone with a brain and a manual can answer a question like that. I'll tell you what, I can send you a copy of my certificate, the ending page of my log book, and photo of me flipping you off from FL20 at 450[TAS.] Here's question for you REAL pilots....get out your "manual flight computer" and tell me what your [IAS] would be at FL20 Aprox.??
Or....tell me the difference between [TAS] and [IAS.]?
How about this...tell me what "V speeds" are.?
OHHHH, Here's one.....tell me the differences between [ATC] and an [TCA?]LOL!
BUT WAIT....YOU....CAN...PROVE....THAT...YOU....ARE... .A.....REAL...PILOT>>>IF.....YOU .....CAN.....TELL....ME......
1. What are standard procedures for a cockpit electrical fire?
2. What is the emergency freq. for civil aircraft.
3. Unless authorized, what is the max. IAS an aircraft may operate at below 10,000MSL? YES...IT'S A SPEED LIMIT!
4. When flying in a VFR corridor designated through Class B airspace, the maximum speed authorized is...WHAT?
5. In what situation is advection fog likely to form?
:roll:
Buckshot
06-04-2004, 00:43
USAF, you've made three posts, and all three have been provocative verging on trolling. This is your first and last warning if you don't want to be here, we will be more than happy to help you on your way.
16 162 Raven
06-04-2004, 01:59
What does CFI-I mean?!?!?!?! Anyone with a brain and a manual can answer a question like that. I'll tell you what, I can send you a copy of my certificate, the ending page of my log book, and photo of me flipping you off from FL20 at 450[TAS.] Here's question for you REAL pilots....get out your "manual flight computer" and tell me what your [IAS] would be at FL20 Aprox.??
Or....tell me the difference between [TAS] and [IAS.]?
How about this...tell me what "V speeds" are.?
OHHHH, Here's one.....tell me the differences between [ATC] and an [TCA?]LOL!
BUT WAIT....YOU....CAN...PROVE....THAT...YOU....ARE... .A.....REAL...PILOT>>>IF.....YOU .....CAN.....TELL....ME......
1. What are standard procedures for a cockpit electrical fire?
2. What is the emergency freq. for civil aircraft.
3. Unless authorized, what is the max. IAS an aircraft may operate at below 10,000MSL? YES...IT'S A SPEED LIMIT!
4. When flying in a VFR corridor designated through Class B airspace, the maximum speed authorized is...WHAT?
5. In what situation is advection fog likely to form?
:roll:
Buchshot. Ill answer his questions in my own way.
USAF, you seem to think your better than we are. I am a pilot (not current) and i do know all you answers as do many others in here. If you dont feel that we know what we are talking about thats your problem bud. not mine. Heres the answers to your test. enjoy the answers.
1. Crack open a beer, grab a stick and have a winie roast. :drink:
2. 97.9 KUPD (my fav rock station here in town
3.Ill be nice and give the right answer on this one. Its 300 kts :-p
4. The last sign i saw said 55mph
5. Toooo many beers the night before. :drink:
There's your answers to your test. I hope you like then cuz im sure the rest of the folks here will get a kick out of em :thumbsup:
Charlie_VFP
06-04-2004, 20:04
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Raptorman
06-13-2004, 05:52
BUT WAIT....YOU....CAN...PROVE....THAT...YOU....ARE... .A.....REAL...PILOT:
Here's your proof, you'll need some time the read it though :biggrin:
http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=60152
Just ignore USAF...He/she is an idiot in my opinion. By the way USAF..it is FL200 you moron. Anyone with a brain and a manual knows that (your words not mine)!
Anyway....what else is new around here? Hope you are all still enjoying the Fighter Ops web site!
CHEERS!!
What does CFI-I mean?!?!?!?!
Clowns ****ing Insolently Infer.
Anyone with a brain and a manual can answer a question like that.
I'm SURE you have a manual. :jester:
I'll tell you what, I can send you a copy of my certificate, the ending page of my log book, and photo of me flipping you off from FL20 at 450[TAS.]
I'll tell YOU what. I can send you a copy of Hustler, the ending page of my Tom Clancy novel, and a photo of your boyfriend flipping himself off.
Here's question for you REAL pilots....get out your "manual flight computer" and tell me what your [IAS] would be at FL20 Aprox.??
It would be the..... ah..... er...... FL20 IAS....?
Or....tell me the difference between [TAS] and [IAS.]?
SIMPLE....!! "T" and "I"
How about this...tell me what "V speeds" are.?
They are the speeds preceeding "W speeds"; following "U speeds".
OHHHH, Here's one.....tell me the differences between [ATC] and an [TCA?]
In the FIRST: "A" preceeds "T" which is followed by "C".
In the SECOND: "T" preceeds "C", which is followed by "A"
1. What are standard procedures for a cockpit electrical fire?
Shit your pants, open the canopy, and jump out.
(You didn't specify if you were FLYING or on the Ramp.... VERY amateur)
2. What is the emergency freq. for civil aircraft.
It is a frequency which is used by civil aircraft during emergencies. :jester:
(Be more SPECIFIC with your wording.... VERY amateur)
3. Unless authorized, what is the max. IAS an aircraft may operate at below 10,000MSL? YES...IT'S A SPEED LIMIT!
HUH..? You answered it YOURSELF. It's a SPEED LIMIT.
(Is this a little TOO subtle for you....?)
4. When flying in a VFR corridor designated through Class B airspace, the maximum speed authorized is...WHAT?
The Maximum authorised speed for flying in a VFR corridor designated thru Class B airspace.
5. In what situation is advection fog likely to form?
When there are MORE adjectives than nouns......??
USAF - Time for the "Gorny Chant".... :ylsuper:
He's GORNY; He's GORNY - we love him; we love him...!
He's clever and lovely; GORNY - hey GORNY.
Blow me.
:poundit:
Raptorman
06-23-2004, 16:37
Gorny, you're killing me :D
Gorny, you're killing me :D
Raptorman. Have you seen my Sig. at Frugs....?
I'd feckin' LIKE TO KILL YOU....!!
:evils:
@Haole - we're no longer speaking...! Did you SEE all the trouble you caused over at your Frug's thread...?? :orange:
BTW - I wonder who USAF REALLY is......?? :wink2:
Raptorman. Have you seen my Sig. at Frugs....?
I'd feckin' LIKE TO KILL YOU....!!
:evils:
@Haole - we're no longer speaking...! Did you SEE all the trouble you caused over at your Frug's thread...?? :orange:
BTW - I wonder who USAF REALLY is......?? :wink2:
I didnt cause any trouble, looks like trouble started on it's own just fine.
Sierra Tango
01-14-2005, 16:15
hahha good stuff guys and gal??
Booo!
I dont miss the Drama...back to the turtle. More knuckleheads to grade :thumb:
Cobra Driver
06-09-2005, 02:35
Well I haven't found a "Hey what's going on ppl?" area......so this will have to do.
I noticed this section has been quiet for a while, sure would like to see it going again. If the die-down was because of "some" comments by "some" ppl, forget them!!
The internet is a plethora of info and can make anyone dangerous with knowledge. Just for example, I recently saw a question like "what are the procedures for a cockpit electrical fire" I can tell you that an Aztecs' is different from a Cobras' which is diff. from a Lear 25F. So what bird you talking about?
Anyhow, I have some experience here and there, have flown a little bit here and a lil bit there, so as far as having an old bastard hanging around here I look forward to the bullshit and laughs we will be sharing. Remember ALL IS IN JEST or else you don't belong in the aviation community.
You'll never get old and get to see your balls sagging down by your knees if you got thin skin.
Cobra Driver
Buckshot
06-09-2005, 02:40
Hey Cobra Driver, welcome to the forums!
Cobra Driver
06-09-2005, 02:45
I can't wait to see this sim come to life. I want to jump in that A-10 something bad. I have flown with A-10's and always blew a nut when I did.
Sun Stealer
06-09-2005, 19:27
I have flown with A-10's and always blew a nut when I did.
Hope you got them fixed! :wink2: No sagging for you otherwise. http://fighterops.com/forum/images/smilies2/image0066.gif
Welcome!
.
just who do u think your drivin.......
hahaha
welcome mate!
Cobra Driver
06-10-2005, 11:15
Yea I saw that, and I imagine if it's your callsign, very nice. But throughout your life you will meet that one girl that no matter how much later in life,the marriages, divorces, lost loves you go thru, she's the one you never forget.
That's my love affair with my Cobra. Not as sexy as a P-51 to some, definitely not as fast as an F- anything to others, but still the AH-1 S/P/E/F stole my heart, treated me right and brought me home.
FYI, thats a sort of jargon used, Hog Driver = A-10, Buff Driver = B-52 etc.
So who else around here burns dinosaur bone juice at a fast rate at high altitudes?
CD
Yea I saw that, and I imagine if it's your callsign, very nice. But throughout your life you will meet that one girl that no matter how much later in life,the marriages, divorces, lost loves you go thru, she's the one you never forget.
That's my love affair with my Cobra. Not as sexy as a P-51 to some, definitely not as fast as an F- anything to others, but still the AH-1 S/P/E/F stole my heart, treated me right and brought me home.
FYI, thats a sort of jargon used, Hog Driver = A-10, Buff Driver = B-52 etc.
So who else around here burns dinosaur bone juice at a fast rate at high altitudes?
CD
I do, but the GF hates it! (the high rate of gas burnt) Oh and she hates that ive had a secret love affair with Helicopters too :wink2:
I know you guys are looking for a real fighter pilot, but how about the next best thing...an AF student pilot flying the T-6 at Vance AFB. I'm certainly no expert on Vipers, Hogs, Albino's or Strike Pigs yet but anything that has to do with UPT I can get you a straight answer on.
Buckshot
06-17-2005, 17:42
Hey UPT, absolutely, if you are interested in an advisor position, or any other help you can give, drop me a line at buckshot@fighterops.com
I know you guys are looking for a real fighter pilot, but how about the next best thing...an AF student pilot flying the T-6 at Vance AFB. I'm certainly no expert on Vipers, Hogs, Albino's or Strike Pigs yet but anything that has to do with UPT I can get you a straight answer on.
Strike Pigs....... I like this one already :)
Grab
Cobra Driver
06-20-2005, 15:34
UPT........it's all good. As a current instructor I see that the old knowledge is wise, but we all learn, and the new stuff is where you come in.
This will be cool cause if you do hang around here, you'll hear from the old bastards and we'll watch this young gun grow up into a real pilot :thumb:
Fly Safe an read with lights on always.
Why.....I had a room-mate in flight school who did his studying late at night under a weak lamp. By the end of flight school his vision was out of the req'd norms and got booted. Flight surg. said he was straining his eyes with his reading habits. Whole career gone cause of wattage.
CD
Cobra Driver
06-28-2005, 21:20
I understand this is a BS'ing place and have fun, but reality is what it is.
Last week an OH-58 crashed killing the instructor and breaking one of the students back while the 1 student in back recieved minor injuries. The A/C was at 8,000 ft +/- when it lost tail rotor control. The IP entered an auto and safely brought it down to land until on short final he saw a school yard in his path. To avoid it, he applied a rapid application (popped the collective) and did miss the school but was never able to recover lost RPM's. The A/C landed left nose-low and he died of internal injuries after be removed from the A/C but still at the scene.
Today we have had a 3 Apache miss-hap and another 58 went down. No details yet but all flights for tonight have been cancelled.
In short, fly safe boys.
CD
Are you talking about the one lost in Iraq, I think a witness saw a missile hit it. Good move on the pilot on avoiding the school:thumb: , pity about the results though better that than being responsible for loss of inocent life.
Cobra Driver
06-29-2005, 18:44
Nope, training scenarios at Fort Rucker, Alabama.
Tomorrow is a safety stand-down day with briefings and classes to follow
What was the 3 Apache mishap?
Cobra Driver
06-30-2005, 06:00
Info is very vague so far.........we'll find out later today. I had heard it was a mid air of 2 and a 3rd nearby got some shrapnel which damaged it.
Only speculation at this point though
CD
Buckshot
06-30-2005, 06:16
Ouch
Info is very vague so far.........we'll find out later today. I had heard it was a mid air of 2 and a 3rd nearby got some shrapnel which damaged it.
Only speculation at this point though
CD
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